Battle Rattle - A Marine Corps Times Blog – Behind the Cover: We’re gay. Get over it.

Behind the Cover: We’re gay. Get over it.

September 13th, 2011 | Behind the Cover Don't Ask Don't Tell | Posted by Tony Lombardo

On Sept. 20, the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy banning gays from serving openly will be stripped from the military’s rulebook. For gay Marines, official repeal will be a historic day, comparable to the moment 63 years ago when President Truman ordered the services to end racial segregation.

For straight Marines, this will bring changes, too. “That’s gay” — a pervasive phrase used throughout the Corps to express dislike for almost anything — will no longer be tolerated. Equal treatment will be a must. And yes, some gay Marines will bring dates to the Marine Corps Birthday Ball in November.

With the end of “don’t ask” just days away, this week’s cover story includes the stories of several gay Marines who wanted to share their views on repeal and the future of the Marine Corps. Gay Marines interviewed for the story include:

– A corporal in the infantry, based at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

– A major at Quantico, Va.

– An infantry officer and company commander at Pendleton.

– A former enlisted Marine now enrolled at the Naval Academy

– And a field grade officer in California

Hear what they have to say about the end of “don’t ask,” don’t tell” in this week’s edition of Marine Corps Times, on newsstands now. Or, subscribe here.

Permalink | September 13th, 2011

Comments

Michael Bedwell Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 4:26 pm
Thanks for the article, and, yes, much has changed for the better than in, e.g., 1975 when a base commander had to be reminded of the Constitution when he tried to order the manager of the PX to remove copies of the famous issue of TIME magazine with Air Force TSgt. Leonard Matlovich in uniform on the cover behind the bold words, “I Am A Homosexual.” http://www.leonardmatlovich.com. BUT, with respect, anyone believing that “equal treatment will be a must” after September 20th has not been paying adequate attention. “Training” has already documented that all branches will deny gay and lesbian service members access to the protections against harassment and discrimination IN the military that other groups such as African-Americans and women have under the Military Equal Opportunity Program [MEO] AND to some crucial partner benefits that even the DoD admits are NOT banned by DOMA such as access to “military family housing.”

In short, the Pentagon is replicating some of the same mistakes, based on bigotry, that they continued for years for African-Americans even after they had integrated every branch, and even though Truman’s Executive Order was all about “equal opportunity” NOT just integration which, in fact, it didn’t mention at all. In bitter irony, the MEO was one of the things that grew out of their finally being forced to stop tolerating racism after “race riots” on bases and ships around the world in the late 60s, early 70s. Another was [now abandoned] “Race Relations” classes for which Leonard Matlovich was a highly rated instructor when he chose to out himself in order to start the fight against the ban 36 years ago. Upon exiting his administrative board hearing where he’d been told he would be discharged, he told waiting MSM: “Maybe not in my lifetime, but we will win in the end.” The date: September 19th, 1975.
JIM Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
I plan to become a Navy Chaplain & although, I don’t agree with homosexual, I am glad DADT will officially be gone. God made it clear that you love the person, & not their sin. I’ll be proud to serve any sailor, marine, & coast guardsman & the way you deal with any sin & get one to turn from it, is through your example as Jesus did with the prostitute.
Anonymous Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
It’s about time fair treatment is delt to all Marines. But if this does not fall under Equal Opprotunity (EO). Where does it fall under?
linda smith Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
This article is absolutley disgraceful. Not because of the subject, but becuase of the content. I do not need to know about how gay men and women handle a shower situation. Just way too much information.
linda smith Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
Hmm…thinking about the ball. What are we to expect? Are gay men allowed to bring their boyfriend, who may not be in the military, and who just may want to wear a gown? This will be one very interesting birthday ball.
JH Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
I think this cover is disrespectful to the entire Marine Corps. I understand what it’s about but the headline makes it seems like the entire Marine Corps is gay. If I had a subscription to Marine Times I think I would cancel. I am truely disgusted by this picture it presents!
e6 Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
As dark a day as I can recall.
Gunny Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
If this is the best tact we can expect from Marine Corps Times, I will never purchase another issue, nor will I support any articles or efforts in which they are involved.
SSgt Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 10:58 pm
Sick….what is this world coming too
CPL Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:25 pm
Of course, I’ve seen higher ups are more apprehensive to this. By the time my generation is sitting in those higher billets, none of this will be an issue any longer. I’m gay myself, been in 4 years now, and I’m damn good at my job. I plan on coming out, and I don’t think it’s gonna be an issue with my command at all. It’ll be a relief when I finally don’t have to lie about who I’m with or where I’ve been on the weekends anymore. No more making up fake girlfriends and stuff like that. So your bigotry will no longer be a concern of mine gentlemen.

Also, if you thing you’ll be able to cripple someone’s career over your personal prejudices, don’t think you won’t be sitting in the hot seat soon after trying to explain why you let your professional attidude towards someone be influenced by your personal views on their sexuality. You’ll be held accountable for it.
Kyle Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
This is ridiculous. The editor who decided this title would fly should be fired. I am not against gays serving but to have that title? It got my attention loud and clear. The Marine Times does not want to put out good word they want to sell their product. Never again will I purchase a copy. I have laughed at other branches titles ex the Army Times said it would give “More Power to NCO’s”. I laughed because it shows the inability of the army to be as reliant on NCO’s as we are.

This title is not a laughing matter. I know what it ment, and what was going to be in the article, but to an outsider it looks like you are calling the Corps gay. Chesty is rolling over in his grave, not because gays are allowed, but because idiots like the editor are trying to sell off the Corps.
CPL Says:
September 13th, 2011 at 11:48 pm
I do agree that the title is ridiculous. It is a little too in-your-face and attention-grabbing
Dani Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:15 am
Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.

Its understandable that this would totally fly over the heads of most straight readers. Queer history isn’t something you really look up unless you’re part of the demographic.

And if you think the magazine title will make everyone assume the military is gay, think of it this way: Up until now, all gays were ASSUMED straight– and if not, then you lose your job and your livelihood.
Happily EASed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:18 am
“Also, if you thing you’ll be able to cripple someone’s career over your personal prejudices, don’t think you won’t be sitting in the hot seat soon after trying to explain why you let your professional attidude towards someone be influenced by your personal views on their sexuality. You’ll be held accountable for it.”

You’re now a special protected class, better than normal Marines. If someone stops your career because you’re colossally inept, you’ll be able to scream “homophobia” and get promoted until you get someone killed. You won’t be held accountable for anything anymore. Congratulations on being more equal than others.

You get special treatment. Of course you’re for it. This is about you getting power over non-gay servicemembers. Hence the insult to the Corps from the Marine Corps Times.

I’m sure the great majority of people we’re at war with right now will also embrace your “lifestyle choice”, too. How exactly do you stick openly gay servicemembers into nations that want you executed just for living?

“Hey al Zawahiri! We’re gay, we’re occupying your nation, get over it!” That’ll go over well. Or do you want to force them to accept your ways, too?

(For the inevitable ahole who’s going to liken this to desegregation – it was progressives under Wilson who segregated the military as a social experiment. Now it’s progressives under the new CiC who are forcing social experiments onto the military.)
Happily EASed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:20 am
“Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.”

Plenty of people know about it. They just don’t care.

Gay rights aren’t civil rights. They’re special priviledges.
Dani Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:25 am
No, you’re just threatened by the thought of being considered equal to a homosexual. It’s obvious from the way you talk about them.
devildoc214(dd214) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:28 am
You know, those staff nco’s on here that post things like “sick” and “it’s a dark day” are terrible snco’s and Marines for that matter. People like you are why personally I will never reenlist as well as why many good Marines don’t reenlist. I believe the first of our core values is “honor”. It’s much more embarrassing to me that we still have complete ignorance at such a high degree than the repeal of DADT ever could.
e6 Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:39 am
Nice try, but I’m a great SNCO, and I enlisted and Re-enlisted into a corps with a different set of values than those which we are being forced into. Get out if you don’t like my views, there is no shortage of good Marines who agree with me that are willing to stick around despite the change. Think what you want, I have my views and if you think this change is good for the Marine Corps, I don’t place much value on your opinion of “good”
CPL Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:56 am
I agree with you completely(dd214). Also about the point made earlier about “special treatment”, yes I can see that. Yes, Marines will abuse the system as they always have. There’s always going to be those few bad seeds. However, good/fair homosexual Marines will just be looking to be treated the same as everyone else, not special. To (e6), as long as you don’t let your personal views get in the way of your ability to lead as a SNCO and you can be fair to ALL Marines and not be biased, then that’s fine. I’m not trying to change people’s views.

I will have a problem if I see Marines being passed over for boards and such just because they’re homosexual and a particular Officer/SNCO has it out to ruin them. I’m sure it’s going to happen. Some Marines that were viewed as exemplary before (board material) deciding to come out will be pinned as terds after and it’s going to affect them on a professional level. I’ll fully support someone who throws down the EO card on that instance. I WON’T support someone who uses that card every time they get bad Pro/Cons who was clearly a bad Marine in the first place
Michael Bedwell Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:10 am
URGENT! Alert National Geographic—comments 4 through 8 prove some dinosaurs still roam the earth.
Michael Bedwell Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:15 am
Ooops, spoke too soon…tell the Geographic a whole herd showed up. Bring big nets….and the giant Anti Stupid pills.
mike Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:36 am
This coverf makes it sound like all marines are gay,if you wanted to run this article all the times should have had the same cover with all branch service uniforms displayed on the cover. i am not against anyones rights, but that doesn;t give you the right to disrespect mine.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:41 am
BLUF: I am glad I retired. That was not an earthquake we had a while back – that was Chesty rolling over in his grave. The times has eaten a retard sandwich in publishing this article. I, with the Gunny above, will never buy another issue. This makes me want to puke! Really – put that on the front page – what were you thinking? And the b-day balls, good luck with that too, and the beatings to follow! They’re coming, don’t tell yourself they are not.
mike Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:51 am
Believe it or not we know who was and wasn’t gay in the military already, wether that gay military member thought no one new we do. I was just better, think of all the tax payers dollar going to be spent on new training,publications,upgrades to bath rooms and showers. No open shower stalls or toliet areas to make everyone more comportable.
I bet when (Cpl says) comes out and tells everyone he or she is gay half of his/her command will say I already new it. Why would you need to do that, do you think we should have gay military day and hold a parade? Just do your job and be glad your not on the unemployment line.
SSgt Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:08 am
I am an USMC SSgt that works on an Army base with Army Rangers, tankers, soldiers alike. I have laughed at the cover of MANY army “Times” over the last few years. NEVER have I seen soldiers laugh so hard they are almost in tears until now….
Nothing against homosexuality in the military but the perception your cover gives about the ENTIRE Marine Corps is truly shameful..
p.o.'d Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:33 am
I really appreciate the fact the the Title and Cover incinuate all Marines are gay (please note the sarcasim). Additionally, why are we empowering gay Marines when we are all JUST Marines…at least that was the DADT breif I was given. This article is disgraceful. Why not write a headlining article about Marines who cheat on their spouses and who they do cheat. Pathetic.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:13 am
This image on the front of this rag reminds me of something a SMMC said to a group of Marines once: “I wouldn’t wipe my a$$ with that magazine.”. Well I sure wouldn’t waste my money on it for that purpose either. Congratulations MCTimes. And a special congratulations to all of the homosexual (are we allowed to say homosexual still?) Marines who serve our country. You’ve single handedly forced your private sexual preferences into the public spotlight. I can’t wait for everyone else to start chanting “I’m straight get over it!”. Get over yourselves. We already know you’re gay most likely and haven’t said anything because we simply don’t damn care.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:30 am
Each time I see a new posting to this (straight Marines) it reminds me that we are now the minority in this case. As others have said, “We don’t care” “You make us sick” “Keep it to yourselves, eventhough we already know”, etc, etc. Moreover, how about the BC who has to deal with a He said/He said cat fight? I’d be retiring if that issue came into my office. This is a discrace to those who have died for this organization and this country. Forcing us to accept your now spotlighted ways is a violation of not only our 1st Amendments rights in protesting back – but in being the minoiryt now, you can be rest assured that if we pop off a comment and you get your feelings hurt, we will get the boot. But you can rump ride your partner to and from the b-day each year knowing that you have pissed all over our beloved Corps. Get over that!
and noone cares Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:31 am
While I was in I served honorably and was discharged as such. I served alongside 6 Marines that were known homosexuals even though they tried to hide it, 2 of which were in Iraq when I was with the grunts. Everyone knew, we joked about it, and in the end no one cared. They weren’t running around shitting out rainbows like the bigots like to think, they were normal guys to us.
and noone cares Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:34 am
Also a side note, some of the most homosexual things I have ever seen happened at boot camp, and were part of the training regime. How’s that for your beloved corps?
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:43 am
Gents, this isn’t going to make homosexual sodomy any less vile or damaging to the rectum. I assume that homosexuals are still banned for life from giving blood along with intravenous drug users, or is that policy too insensitive to continue to enforce?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:43 am
@ noone cares – there is a reason you are no longer in! If grab ass games went on like that, it’s b/c HATs we garbage or the NCOs in charge of the training were garbage and did to others what was done to them. That’s hazing! Servicemen and women get out with a bad attitude b/c they were not taking care of, or their little feelings got hurt b/c they could not voice their opinons – hence this mess! You served fine, congradulations and thanks for shopping. For those that stay – the GySgt above and the SSgt on the Army base, how about what they are feeling and now have to deal with. This is BS! As I said before, its not about being a bigot, its about voicing our rights under Amendment 1, which we protect – all of us. Keep your trash to yourselves. We don’t care and don’t want it forced on us. Nor do we need to sit in class rooms getting sensativity training b/c some is thin skinned. Get some Rhino lining, strap your pack on and keep moving!
John Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:57 am
“But you can rump ride your partner to and from the b-day each year knowing that you have pissed all over our beloved Corps.”

Really? How much more of a bigot could you be? Educated much?
PFC Twinkie Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Does this mean I get service related disability because I shared my foxhole with a friend in Afghanistan?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:14 am
@ John – yeah I’m educated bitch! I gotta a BS in Management and a Masters in Homeland Security. Any other questions you may have stored in your frozen pea size brain!?
Stavros Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:23 am
Hilarious to see a complaint about 1st amendment rights from someone opposing DADT repeal. All this does is is allow people to say they are gay without fear of being discharged for it.

So many people saying “we don’t care if you’re gay!”, yet, you support a rule where if someone reveals that, they should be discharged? Logic fail.
Lady Leatherneck Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:31 am
You idiots should learn how to read. The title doesn’t make the whole Marine Corps seem gay. That’s what the subtitle is for [clarification].

@ linda smith – You’re the most ignorant bigot I’ve ever come across. I’m pretty sure the article does not depict homosexual shower acts. And most gay men do not cross dress. I guess that would make a a raging bull dyke if i wore my dress blues with pants and brought my girlfriend to my ball. GO FUCK YOURSELF. You probably already do, that’s why you’re mad about homosexuals being ale to come out.
Lady Leatherneck Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Msgt. Obviously you havent had a life since you retired. You should get one instead of “exercising your 1st amendment rights” 457980987645 times on this thread. We are forced to accept your ways. we have to sit in classes to to hear about you guys raping people, beating your wives, and commiting adultery. KiLL
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Hey stuttering stavros, whatever that is, its not a complaint you DOLT! Its a fact. They cried foul and got what they wanted – good for them. But if someone on the other side of the fence says anything contrary to the repeal of DADT, then they end up being a bigot, racist, etc and might end up getting booted out. But that is what the 1st Amendment is for, absent the fact that we forgo some of these rights in uniform. Not just for one party or person to advocate their thoughts and not allow another. I’m thinking Dr. King covered this. This is a topic about good order and discipline in the Armed Forces as a whole. DADT worked fine my entire 20, but now – b/c someone had an idea (don’t do that!) this is the end state. And what really cracks me up is the fact that if we say anything we are bigots and racist. Eh, no, we are voicing our opinion. Put in ear plugs if you don’t like it, change the channel, leave, etc.
and noone cares Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:46 am
@lady leatherneck I think I’m in love!
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:56 am
@lady leatherneck do you kiss your girlfriend with that pottymouth? Still don’t care.
Civilian Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:07 am
JNWarren Your assumption is correct only if that Homosexual has engaged into multiple sex partners in the past 12 months same as straight men/women who engages in multiple sex partner in the past 12 months.
Rosemary Ribner Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:13 am
“Actually, I believe the title is referencing an popular ACT-UP/ Queer Nation protest chant from the 90s. “We’re here, we’re queer, get over it.” It’s meant to harken back to a time of confrontation about basic civil rights.”

Actually, the slogan was “We’re here. We’re queer. Get used to it” NOT get over it.

“Its understandable that this would totally fly over the heads of most straight readers. Queer history isn’t something you really look up unless you’re part of the demographic. ”

Before you insult someone for not knowing “Queer history” make sure you know it yourself, ya know, so you don’t look like a preachy moron.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:20 am
We’re here, and we’re going to date openly while we serve our country (just like you heteros get the “special privilege” of doing).

Don’t like it? Don’t date us.

We’re queer. We’ve always been here. Get used to it. Or get out. There is no room in the Corps for bigots and cowards. If having a homosexual in your unit is detrimental to you to the point that you cannot do your job effectively, you don’t deserve to wear the uniform anyway.

Gay agenda:
Equal civil rights under secular law
Get married
Buy milk
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:25 am
“I’m sure the great majority of people we’re at war with right now will also embrace your “lifestyle choice”, too. How exactly do you stick openly gay servicemembers into nations that want you executed just for living?

“Hey al Zawahiri! We’re gay, we’re occupying your nation, get over it!” That’ll go over well. Or do you want to force them to accept your ways, too?”

^ So how do you think radical Middle Eastern nationalists feel about WOMEN serving? We should let the enemy dictate our ranks now?

That’s the most stupid argument I’ve ever heard against DADT repeal. Seriously.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:25 am
Lady Leatherneck – I got a life. For your SA, It gets me $6 digits a years and 90% disability for numerous tours in Iraq. Moving right along…, this is a society driven idea that has now made its way into the ranks. Fine. But what everyone is saying, is do it with tact. Everyone has their opinions and they are entitled to them. That’s why we do what we do and/or did. To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:36 am
“To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.”

The only people that will be offended are people who don’t support equal civil rights for all Americans, and if you don’t support equal civil rights, you don’t deserve to call yourself a Marine.

What about all the gay and lesbian Marines who have have served and died for a country that continues to treat them like second class citizens?

Talk about disrespect.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:41 am
“(just like you heteros get the “special privilege” of doing).”

@ maverick does your shortening of the word heterosexuals allow heterosexuals to continue calling homosexuals “homos” or is that still offensive to the gays? Just wondering what us “heteros” are supposed to know to tip-toe around your feelings, our moral foundation, and political strong arms ethically.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:52 am
“@ maverick does your shortening of the word heterosexuals allow heterosexuals to continue calling homosexuals “homos” or is that still offensive to the gays? Just wondering what us “heteros” are supposed to know to tip-toe around your feelings, our moral foundation, and political strong arms ethically.”

^ Awwww, did I offend your delicate sensibilities? *eyeroll*

You’re right, I should have spelled out “heterosexual” and it was lazy of me not to. Didn’t know you guys wanted to police our grammar AND our love lives.

The only thing you’re supposed to know is that we deserve to be treated the same as you. No better and no worse. Keep that in mind and we’ll get along swimmingly, as queers in the military have been doing for, I dunno, THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:54 am
You’re like, so awesome for claifying. Thanks pumpkin.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:56 am
You’re welcome, cupcake.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:58 am
Haha awesome. Cupcakes and fruitcakes get along fine, see?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:59 am
Nice quote Maverick. BTW is that a call sign? Oh, and I know of those who have served. And you are completely wrong WRT people being offended not supporting equal rights. The offense is to a persons own personal likes, dislikes, how they were raised and what they believe in. Yes, some might be bigots and racists, but he majority are just voicing their opinions as to how a particular situation discusted them. Nothing more.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:10 am
“Haha awesome. Cupcakes and fruitcakes get along fine, see?”

^ Just goes to show that a little humor goes a long way. Do I think gay and lesbian Marines are going to get ripped on for being queer? Sure. Do I think that once given the freedom to speak openly without being discharged, they’ll give as good as they get in the smartassery department? Of course.

“Nice quote Maverick. BTW is that a call sign? Oh, and I know of those who have served. And you are completely wrong WRT people being offended not supporting equal rights. The offense is to a persons own personal likes, dislikes, how they were raised and what they believe in. Yes, some might be bigots and racists, but he majority are just voicing their opinions as to how a particular situation discusted them. Nothing more.”

^ Do they even let people take that call sign after Tom Cruise?

Since when does one’s personal likes and dislikes (especially pertaining to religious beliefs) give someone the right to dictate how someone *else* lives their life? If you think gay sex is disgusting, by all means abstain. But homosexuality (despite the suffix) isn’t about just who you sleep with, it’s about who you fall in love with and raise kids with too.

I find religious fundamentalists who cherrypick their scriptures to form a platform of moral superiority offensive, but you don’t see me petitioning to get them kicked out of the Corps for it.
Sid Stickman Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:28 am
As a retired SNCO; I think its funny that all you “Good SNCO’s” can find time to judge and post your bigoted comments, but YOU are also the ones that routinely participate in and turn a blind eye to Adultery and many other “acts” (While Deployed). Too many in the Corps willing to judge, without reflecting on their own conduct! Gays have been in the corps (and all of the other services for a longtime), Certain Marine Corps Occupational Fields are WIDELY known for the prevalence of GAY service members; similarly the treatment of GAY MEN, has always been disproportionate that of GAY WOMEN! (ALL MARINE SOFTBALL ANYONE) – Read or Re-Read Conduct Unbecoming by Randy Schilts!
Kathy Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:34 am
There are many comments to the effect that the title of the article makes it sound like all Marines are gay. Even if that were the case, the USMC would still be the best, most bad ass military fighting machine in the world.

Its about “how” you perform on duty not “with whom” you perform off duty.

You shouldn’t get mad just because they don’t want to date your sister.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:41 am
“So if there were some way of arranging that a state, or an army, could be made up entirely of pairs of lovers, it is impossible to imagine a finer population. They would avoid all dishonour, and compete with one another for glory: in battle, this kind of army, though small, fighting side by side could conquer virtually the whole world. After all, a lover would sooner be seen by anyone deserting his post or throwing away his weapons, rather than by his boyfriend.” – Plato [on homosexuals in the military]
Broadsword Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Ah, yes. The ‘special treatment’ argument. You know, the last time we heard the ‘special privileges’ argument was when you guys were arguing AGAINST the racial integration of US forces.

It was also trotted out to argue against the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act.

Here’s a clue – over the entrance to the Supreme Court, it does NOT say ‘Equal Justice Before Law. Unless you’re black or gay.’

If serving with the good men and women of this country who happen to be gay makes you feel weird and icky, you might want to consider your own latent homosexuality as the root cause.
PavePusher Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) wrote: “To put something like that on the front page of the times, shows a lack of respect for the Corps and those who serve, have served, and who have died for the Corps; and, it becomes as offense to a straight Marine, as the “N” word is to an African American, or the “F” word to a gay person.”

Interesting that you should bring up “African American”, as the opponents of a racially integrated military used largely the same arguments being used to oppose a sexual-orientation integrated military.

The Irony is so strong you could frame a building with it.
Zane Garrison Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Post number 27 by: Unimpressed: I love this person, this person is exactly how people should be, this whole issue is so ridiculous and it is best expressed by Unimpressed! Why? because in their own words: “We already know you’re gay most likely and haven’t said anything because we simply don’t damn care.”

why should you care? it doesn’t affect your relationship, it doesn’t mean you love your spouse or boyfriend or girlfriend any less, your wedding ring isn’t going to mean something different to your spouse so why should you care about someone else’s relationship? it’s non of your business! If the soldier beside you on the front line, has your back, has your trust and is laying his or her life on the line along side yours, then what’s the deal?

This is exactly what gay and lesbian people want, it to be NO BIG DEAL! Just do your job, go on like you always have. you know there are gays in military and you know to be there they have to hold their own, they’re serving and giving their all, just like you. Dont make this a bid deal.

They dont “special” treatment, just equal treatment. you dont get kicked out for loving your wife or your bf/gf, they shouldn’t either. you didn’t wake up one morning in your life and think to yoursef: I wonder what it would be like to love someone of the same gender, no, you did what came natural to you… so are they. their sexual identity is not a choice and all they ask is they dont get kicked out of the military service for being who they are.

So, please dont treat them any different than you treat your friends, your fellow soldiers. If you take your gf or bf to a birthday ball then why should a gay man or woman be denied that same right? Abolish the ball if you can’t have respect for someone different than you are, but we have a high standard for our soldiers, we expect honor and truth and respect for all people and for the most part, you all show that everyday and in everyway.. KUDOS!

To Unimpressed who wrote post 27: This isn’t an issue to you because you have never disrespected anyone who was gay, you always treated them the same and it’s no damn big deal and who damn cares to you… GOD I wish everyone thought the same way as you. You are so comfortable with your own sexuality because you know who you are and your own sexuality can’t be threatened.

The sad truth is not everyone thinks like you. To some, they welcome the opportunity to proclaim their moral superiority. They can feel better about themselves because they despise someone else, they can belittle them, mock them, hate them, hurt them and it makes them feel good. These people are self righteous and they need the “packs of wolves” that associate with them to empower them and make them feel good about themselves!

It’s true thing magazine should not have been so in your face, that was really uncalled for, but if you’ll read through these comments here. Posts by the clergy and leaders in the military you can clearly see where people do want to impose their own narrow minded views onto everyone else. They like being able to demonize a gay man because it makes them feel bigger and better and more powerful but it’s wrong.

None of you people who want to judge these gay men and women who serve will ever understand the simple truth, you dont choose your own sexuality or who you love.. otherwise if you did.. you would all be bisexual because you are implying that you yourself could choose to fall in love with someone of your own gender! DUH! think about it before you are so quick to judge.. if you couldn’t ever choose to sleep with another man and it could never be a choice for you, then why do you think it could be a choice for a gay man?

…and for all of you who think that gay people are after “special” treatment, no, they’re not. They would love to be able to live as quietly and unnoticed as possible with the person they love than to have you spewing your unkind and hateful remarks at them, no one would choose that! They just want to be able to live without YOU shoving your own views onto their personal lives and preventing them from being with they one they love. YOU get to be with the one you love and they want and deserve the same.

You all equate this as being a purely sexual thing, but is sex really what binds you to your spouse? really? you dont love them? They’ll be happy to know that, want they! No, I think not, I think you love your spouses and these people only want to be able to do the same, have a life filled with love, good friends and good family… one day die an old happy American because they served with honor and the country stood by them and all of their fellow soldiers couldn’t give a good damn who they chose to love, because it simply didn’t matter!
Mr. Fred Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 1:55 pm
DISGUSTING.

For those of you complaining, do you not understand that you GIVE UP your constitutional rights when you enlist in the military.

The Military is NOT an equal opportunity employer;

You can’t be an idiot (fail an ASVAB)
You can’t be a fatbody
You can’t be handicapped
You must pass a PT test (be physically fit)

…. I can go on…

With that said, I’m glad I served but I wouldn’t want to be serving in the corps now. I can see a lot of good marines choosing a DD214 over re-enlistment.

The corps will never be the same.
Broadsword Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Mr. Fred,

What an interesting take you have on things.

So, you gave up your right to vote when you joined the Corps?

You must have given up your right to petition the government and your freedom of religion when you joined the Corps, right?

Maybe you didn’t.

I could go on…

Interesting that you’d refuse to serve because you can’t discriminate any more. Guess that means you’re more loyal to your self-righteous sense of bigotry, and your bankrupted morality than you are to the Nation.

That’s what’s disgusting, pal. It’s the cowardice.

It’s pretty clear that you’re just…*afraid* to serve with ‘the gays’. Or, is it something deeper than that?

What you’re failing to realize is that it’s a good thing that the corps will never be the same, and that our services already have quite a few gay people in them. That includes the Corps.

Your argument dies on the sword of reason. It dies doubly and with ignominy for every honorable act of service to the Nation performed by gay soldiers.
Mick in Detroit Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:12 pm
Mr. Fred. – you’re right the military is not an equal opportunity employer and you do give up various rights when you serve.

The civilian leadership and the VAST majority of the American population feel that the DADT is a relic of the past. THEY are our bosses. THEY are the ones we serve. Get the fuck over it, because, as you say… U Signed the Motherfucking Contract.
Springer Rider Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where the child failed to adequately bond with the same sex parent. The desire of acceptance and affection from the same sexed parent is translated to sexual attracttion when puberty arises.

To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.
Mr. Fred Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Post 62:

Do you have freedom of speech? Do you have the right to not be searched (barracks inspections?), Do you have the right to a trial with a jury of your peers? NO you do not.

What happens if you’re a fat body, can’t pass your PFT? Should we let you in even though your’re an ASVAB failure?

Did you know that sodomy is even unlawful between a man and a woman in the military? Are they going to change this a well?

It’s not that I’m afraid of the gays, Flamboyancy goes against professionalism in uniform.

Because you like putting your pee-pee in another man’s bum, that does not entitle you to special rights. Simple as that.
E-5 Really? Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
MarineTime should loose contract with USMC
E-5 Really? Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
The cover insinuates the entire Marine Corps is gay. Really! I had no problem with the new policy until now. I could care less who is gay but why is it necessary to parade it like this. This is crazy and just unnecessary. Gay Marines want to be treated equal, so why no act it. You don’t see cover pages saying “We’re Straight Get Over It!” this is stupid! Personally I feel this is a cover page the Times came up with to sell copies, I do not think this is the feelings of gay Marines, well I hope not anyway. Do what you got to do and get on with it. I’m pretty sure Marines are not going to start showing up to work in rainbow colored uniforms, Although we may have to be more specific about rainbow gear for pt..lol
SSGT 0313 Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
As a Christian, this is clearly a moral issue. So here is the problem: As a leader of Marines, I carry the responsibility of adhering to, exampling, and expecting my Marines to hold to the highest standards of conduct and morals. Now I am required to continue in that responsibility, but ignore the completely immoral conduct going on around us. It demonstrates inconsitency, and ultimately undermines my ability to lead.

Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.

I anticipate that history will tell the story of the irreparable damage that will be done to good order and discipline in our military.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
‘To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.’

^ Tell that to the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association.

You already think you know more than the American people, do you think you know more than the medical professionals now too?

I call bullshit.
anymouse Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
I am a ginger who has been discriminated and verbally abused for way too long. I demand rights. Just kidding, I am a ginger but I laugh it off, throw an insult back where it came from, and go back to work. My choices are dye my hair or live with it. What I don’t do is cry about it like a fag.
I commend Gen. Amos for taking a stand against congress, and even though he is ordered to support his CICs order, I know he’s on our side. This WILL harm unit cohesion. Even if the polls are correct (which, anyone serving knows way more Marines oppose the repeal than polls indicate) @ least 43% oppose the repeal. Nearly 1 in 2 people in a room now are unhappy with the situation. If more than 1 in 2 Marines are gay then I suppose cohesion could improve, otherwise this is a terrible day.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
“Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.”

^ Do you hold to Levitical law as well?

Eaten any good shellfish lately? Worn two different fibers in the same garment?

I’ll just do my Christian duty and point you to Matthew 23:27:

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and everything unclean.”

And to the part of Leviticus everyone seems to forget to mention (19:18):

“You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I AM THE LORD.”
boot Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
This is gay, not the homosexual gay, the stupid gay
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
I think its great that the gays want to be recognized. I think they should pay more taxes for their way of life. I think they should be held accountable for the cost of changes we are experiencing in our economy. It’s not equal by any means, the medical ramifications of being gay by exposing straight men and women to sexually transmitted diceases like AIDS is enough to be prosecuted. So if your gay you should pay for the separate restroom facilities, and other accommodations to separate the diverse beliefs. I don’t want to experience the illnesses associated with being gay. I want assurances that I won’t be exposed to AIDS.
E-5 Really? Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
that one was a little funny…
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
“I think its great that the gays want to be recognized. I think they should pay more taxes for their way of life.”

Like all the special taxes heterosexuals have to pay for the privilege of being straight? What, you want us to wear pink triangles too?

“I think they should be held accountable for the cost of changes we are experiencing in our economy.”

^ Let me guess, we’re responsible for natural disasters as well. Let me just wave my fairy wand and crash the economy – whoops, did I do that? Go ahead and keep on with your bad self, Sergeant. You just make the queers look better and better.

“It’s not equal by any means, the medical ramifications of being gay by exposing straight men and women to sexually transmitted diceases like AIDS is enough to be prosecuted. So if your gay you should pay for the separate restroom facilities, and other accommodations to separate the diverse beliefs. I don’t want to experience the illnesses associated with being gay. I want assurances that I won’t be exposed to AIDS.”

^ I don’t want to go out on a limb and say you’re an uninformed moron, but…

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere’s your sign.
jakob dani3l Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
I think that yes homosexuals should be let into the service. they live in America and should have the opportunity to serve there country. The issue with me is the diverse arrangements of gay and straight. Things like boot camp, schools, and even the M.O.S. Another thing will be how gay service members can talk about life problems with there peers and commanders.
Broadsword Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
“Romans Chapter One unmistakably identifies homosexuality as an abomination to God.”

Yeah. Not everybody subscribes to your religion. Your religion, thank God, is not the arbiter of what is or isn’t acceptable in this society.

Your religion also commands that you stone your wife to death if she’s wearing two different kinds of cloth. I’m doubting you’ve done that. The Bible is also full of justifications for slavery. We don’t do that any more, either.

So…maybe pointing to the Bible doesn’t exactly win you the argument.
Broadsword Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
“Homosexuality is an anxiety disorder where the child failed to adequately bond with the same sex parent. The desire of acceptance and affection from the same sexed parent is translated to sexual attracttion when puberty arises.
To treat it as “normal” is an anathema to the homosexual and cruel. It is treatable and correctable.”

Yeah…you sound more gay than Michelle Bachman’s husband.
Mick in Detroit Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Hey MSGT- When I was out on MSG duty the only ones coming down with the HIV were the straight Marines banging hookers without a rubber. Or…were they just secretly gay?

Look. The order has been given. quit bitching and do your jobs. I swear the amount of pissing and moaning about something this insignificant is just depressing. Especially from those that claim the mantle of “senior leaders”
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
I don’t want to pay the tax dollars for the added medical costs. If two men want to swap spit, have at it. It’s a documented fact that gays transmit a deadly virus. I think sexual persuasion should be printed dog tags, that way the corpsman can take extra precautions when treating someone they may or may not have Aids. You can justify with all the sarcasm you want, but at the end of the day, I think it’s great that all you gays are coming out. Why should the rest of society pay your medical premiums for being gay. It’s your decision and you should pay more for health insurance, be subjected to more health checkups, and provide for the added expense for your own accommodations, I don’t want to pay for it.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
“Things like boot camp, schools, and even the M.O.S.”

^ Every single person reading this article has probably had high school gym. If you have, you have showered and changed with gays or lesbians. If you survived high school gym without being sexually molested by a gay or lesbian person, you should understand how unfounded and ridiculous the “bathroom argument” is.

If anything, the military should be cracking down on the levels of *heterosexual* rape in its ranks, considering that 1 in 3 women in the military has been sexually assaulted by their fellow (male) soldiers.

“Another thing will be how gay service members can talk about life problems with there peers and commanders.”

^ Most people who are gay in the military are already “out” to trusted people that they serve with. DADT repeal just means gay and lesbian soldiers have more opportunities to discuss their personal lives without deceit, improving morale and trust in the unit. It’ll also give LGBT people more visibility to show that we are not the boogeymen people like the Sarge here make us out to be.

It doesn’t matter whether you’re straight, it just matters whether you can shoot straight.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Regardless of what is put into effect, Marines will continue to do what they do and say what they say. Marines are people. The population as a whole is not past racism or discrimination so policys do not accomplish what people believe. I hear racial slurs on a daily basis and have yet to see any action taken because no one at the level where it takes place really cares. If anyone is so delusional to believe that a repeal will change the way people behave it might be a good idea to take a walk around and try to shed the naiveity.

The real problem is that straight Marines see gay Marines as a catalyst to a potential rape scenario, awkward unrequited sexual desire scenario, or just accidently witnessing dude on dude butt sex. Few people care about more than avoidance of the aforementioned scenarios. If gay people would avoid flamboyance and unwarranted sexual advances/public display of affection this whole thing would cease to be any sort of a “big deal.”

Msgt retired – I suggest some research on sexually transmitted diseases. If you hold a firm belief that you can contract aids from a restroom toilet or shower it is quite obvious that you are an idiot clinging to outdated thinking. If someone you know contracted the HIV virus it was likely from a spouse that could not deal with monogamy.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
I like Fred. “Pen-is in bum!” Classic brother, absolutely classic. To douche bag mcghee who did not get the reference of being offended by the “N” to African Americans – it’s like this – A change occurred for the good then as it is. This is however a bigger issue, given DOMA, Aids, TriCare, Benefits, etc. SSgt 0313 brings up a good point with good order and discipline

“As a Christian, this is clearly a moral issue. So here is the problem: As a leader of Marines, I carry the responsibility of adhering to, exampling, and expecting my Marines to hold to the highest standards of conduct and morals. Now I am required to continue in that responsibility, but ignore the completely immoral conduct going on around us. It demonstrates inconsitency, and ultimately undermines my ability to lead.”

Add to this, this is a defect not a choice. You don’t wake up one morning and say, Self and you know its you b/c you recognize your voice and you are in our own skivies – I think I’ll take the royal pen-is in the bum! NO! This is a crossed wire issue up stairs. I refuse to believe that it is a choice.

If that is the case, pencils make spelling errors, guns kill people, congress is on top of things, and our economy is booming!
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Really , this whole thing reeks of Progressive/ Liberal BS . Gays have been serving for thousands of years , does it really matter if it’s advertised . All this does is bring in more divide in an already divided Nation . Don’t ask / Don’t tell was working just fine . This is nothing more than political payback for votes .

If there is no difference then why the special training required for everyone before all this openness . Are homosexuals being sent to special training to understand why heteros think that way .

As long as you can do your job and have my back I don’t give a rip who you spend your liberty with .
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Can’t wait to see what happens when the 3rd Fire team Leader falls in love with the M60 Team leader who is cheating on him with the Motor section Leader ..

Drama in the Squad Bay .
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
“It’s your decision and you should pay more for health insurance, be subjected to more health checkups, and provide for the added expense for your own accommodations, I don’t want to pay for it.”

^ What added accomodations would those be? The simple accomodation that says our fellow soldiers (brothers-in-arms, if you will, and those who are supposed to watch our backs and be our comrades unto death) can’t verbally or physically assault us for our sexual orientation without repercussion anymore?

Oh thank you, Massah! I ezz so happy! Thank you!

(Stay classy Sarge.)
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@Big Toe – well said. It comes down to votes.
brian savant Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:02 pm
What a bad decision by Marine Corps Times to not only publish this article, but to put it on the front page. This has got to be the worst front page article ever printed by Marine Corps Times. Everyone knows and is aware of the change coming, but putting it on the front page and blasting it to the world is not the way to bring about the change. I am totally disgusted by the front page advertisement. I already got a few emails about the front page from counterparts and civilians. Bad choice of words, bad layout choice, and a terrible way to showcase the change. I accept the change but this is not the way to go about showcasing the change. What a sad day for Marine Corps Times and the entire Marine Corps.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
“Gays have been serving for thousands of years , does it really matter if it’s advertised.”

^ It does if you want to have any kind of romantic relationship during your term of service. It’s not about “advertisement”, it’s about letting people sleep with whomever they like without fear of discharge.

“Don’t ask/Don’t tell was working just fine.”

^ Spoken like a straight guy who is completely unaffected by the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. It’ll be interesting to see how many GAY soldiers would say that DADT was “working just fine” for them, seeing as it forced them into celibacy and dishonesty.

“Are homosexuals being sent to special training to understand why heteros think that way.”

^ It doesn’t matter why you think that way. Do I have to take a class to understand the way racists think to know that it’s fucking stupid?
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I have been out for a few years , when I was in Marines were not permitted to bring their girlfriends into the barracks , with that I have one question , since Gays can now serve openly that means they can probably bring their lovers or partners into their barracks since they are of the same sex . Is the military now going to permit hetero Marines to bring their opposite sex partners into the barracks .

If not they are opening themselves up to a DISCRIMINATION SUIT .. And a just suit at that .
Stephen Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Do we yet know what the promotion quota will be for gay officers and enlisted members? Preference for their minority status over performance. And how soon will there be a requirement for the first gay Marine Corps Commandant? Colin Powell once said that he was outraged that gay would be equated with racial equality. The Marine Times just never got the picture. In a life and death profession, performance ought to always be the only precedent for promotion and leadership position. However, the gay lobby just as much as the female lobby will make sure that is not the case. Woe to America’s defense.
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
Here Yup, did some of that research you recommended.

There are so many ways to contract AIDS and HIV that it’s frightening when you think about it. Here are the most common:

1. Unprotected Sex – the #1 transmitter of AIDS and HIV, though that is being disputed currently. Unprotected Sex with anyone can lead to HIV, but also remember that it won’t always lead to it. Generally, the rule with STD’s is that one person is usually the infected carrier…regardless, always use protection when having sex. Most particularly, oral sex will DEFINITELY transmit the disease…the genitalia of both men and women are among the most germ-ridden areas of the body…oral sex will transmit the infection faster than most other methods, since there is no real contraceptive that can be used.

2. Drug Use – this is being disputed currently against Unprotected Sex as the #1 transmitter of AIDS. Sharing of drug needles is the most common transmission…needless to say, the needle goes into the blood stream of one person, and then if the needle is shared with other people, germs and infections from one person are spread to the other. While the direct cause of HIV is still not currently known (believe it or not), it is a fact that sharing of drug needles seems to breed HIV among users.

3. Blood transfusion/mixing – It is never safe to touch someone’s open wound…you don’t know if the person has AIDS or HIV. A popular thing for kids to do way back when was to pick their scabs off and rub the sores together so that they would become ‘blood brothers’. It is things like that which can cause AIDS…the direct contact of one person’s open wound to an infected or potentially infected person’ blood. In the 80′s blood reserves were not checked for AIDS, since AIDS was still a young and relatively underestimated disease…many blood transfusions led to infection. Now, all hospitals and blood banks are required to screen donors for infections, but there is always the possibility that a blood transfusion will cause AIDS.

4. Kissing – disputed, but AIDS and HIV CAN be carried by saliva…kissing an infected person is dangerous. While a simple kiss on the cheek or non-mouth kiss is fine, open mouthed kissing can lead to the transfer of the disease. Also remember that when you brush your teeth, you create hundreds of tiny cuts on your gums…kissing an infected person who brushed their teeth recently is inviting a transmission.

5. Sharing hygiene tools – as stated above, sharing a toothbrush is a very bad idea…whether infected with HIV or not, the cuts created in the mouth of the person do bleed, and are open cuts…blood and infection will get caught in the bristles of the brush. Sharing shaving razors is also ill-advised…especially manual razors, as opposed to electric, since you are more prone to bloody cuts while shaving. I don’t know but sharing the same toilet could be construed as hygiene tool, what do you think? How about when someone scratches their ass raw and makes it bleed, can that be cause for alarm?

What you should remember is that you won’t get AIDS or HIV by sitting next to someone with the disease, holding their hand, touching them or talking to them. Although it is easy to transmit, it is difficult to catch, but you must make sure that you are careful at all times…when you meet someone, namely a new friend or a date, it is important that you know their sexual history before you get romantically involved. If you trust the person, and they are open with their relationship history with you, then you can rely on that, but always remember that if you have doubts, ask your partner or friend (and you, for that matter) to get tested.

How about this research, According to a recent article in Rueters nationwide, new HIV infection rates remained stable between 2006 and 2009, but increased by nearly 50 percent for young black gay and bisexual men.
According to the article, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recently reported that new HIV infections have remained stable at a rate of 50,000 infections per year. However, young (those between the ages of 13 and 29 years) men you have sex with men are the population most affected. “HIV remains one of the most glaring health disparities in this country,” said Dr. Kevin Fenton, director of the CDC’s National Center for HIV/AIDS. “We saw increases of up to 48 percent – nearly a 50 percent increase between 2006 and 2009.” According to Fenton, the explanation for this disparity is not well understood, but the CDC will need to focus on areas where HIV is most heavily concentrated in order to reduce these disparities.
Last summer, the White House outlined a new National HIV/AIDS strategy that calls for better methods to gather data about infected populations and increase preventive tools that have been shown to decrease the likelihood of HIV transmission (Steenhuysen 8/03).
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:15 pm
On a side note about the layout of the cover . If the Marine Corps Times is a sister mag to the ” Times ” or ” Newsweek ” rags I would expect no different . Both are in the bag for the Progressive / Liberal movement .

Shame on them .
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
@Maverick – I’m guessing your gay? So you think DADT and its new ruling is ok, and the classes we have to attend so we don’t rain on your parade is fine? But gays and lesbians don’t have to receive any training as to how this change affects straights. That is one way liberal BS! I, like others, now can’t say the word gay or fag, eventhough the first means happy and the later is English for a cigarette. But I doubt that will get anyone off at NJP or aquitted at a court.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
“In a life and death profession, performance ought to always be the only precedent for promotion and leadership position.”

^ Considering homosexuals have always been some of the the best warriors on the planet since ancient times (Google “Amazons” and “Sacred Band of Thebes”) based on their military merit, NOT their sexuality, I can’t help but think arguments like this come from people who are afraid the queers are going to out-Marine you.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Nope , not afraid of being out -Marined at all and I consider that as much of an insult as a homosexual does being called a ” Queer ”

I haven’t seen anyone on here say that a homosexual could preform honorably . But I have seen some legit questions being asked , thats the whole issue with this people ask legit questions and others had rather insult than answer .
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@Maverick – yeah I think it was the Romans who used to corn hole the wounded so they could tell the tails of being violated like a parking meter back hm, if they lived through the train being run on them. Aewsome. I’m thinking that’s a war crime absent the century.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Sarge – Actually I’m a lesbian.

Oh BOO HOO on your DADT repeal class. Jesus crispy Christ. I’m supposed to feel sorry that folks had to sit through a Powerpoint presentation about how not to be a homophobic jackass, while gays and lesbians had to serve in silence for *decades* while under constant threat of dishonorable discharge?

Grow up sir.

“But gays and lesbians don’t have to receive any training as to how this change affects straights.”

So how does it affect you? You’re not gay, it’s not about you. You talk like you expect Marines to start walking around in pink spandex cut-offs or something. Gay or not, an American soldier is an American soldier, and the queer ones are just as capable of conducting themselves with professionalism as the straight ones.

“I, like others, now can’t say the word gay or fag, eventhough the first means happy and the later is English for a cigarette. But I doubt that will get anyone off at NJP or aquitted at a court.”

^ If you use those words in those specific contexts, you should be fine.

If you use them to attack gay and lesbian soldiers whose only crime is giving up their liberty and comfort to serve alongside you, you should be hauled up on discrimination/harassment charges.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
@ Big Toe – well said. Now that they got what they wanted and we start asking serious hard line questions, they tap dance around questions and call us racist bigots. Not the case. As you noted, all can serve honorable – but there are questions and concerns that need addressed, and the mind numbing DADT training is not going to get it done.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
- Nope , not afraid of being out -Marined at all and I consider that as much of an insult as a homosexual does being called a ” Queer ” –

Good to hear that you’re not afraid of a little healthy competition. Gays will be ranked meritoriously, just like any other soldier. That’s the meaning of EQUAL treatment.

“I haven’t seen anyone on here say that a homosexual could preform honorably . But I have seen some legit questions being asked , thats the whole issue with this people ask legit questions and others had rather insult than answer.”

And what legitimate questions are those? I’ve answered every question I’ve seen that looked even remotely legitimate to me. (Except for Sarge’s “AIDS scare” posts, which I find too ludicrous to deign a response.)
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Hold up Mav … Why you got to be so ” Agressive ” this isn’t a Moveon.org rally . And if you think this doesn’t affect EVERYONE involved then your dumber than your sudden outburst . It does affect everyone in some way or another and I don’t mean that Marines will be dressing up in pink spandex , very classy there Sis .

I’m no longer active but I do have a son that is active and YES I have some legit questions .
WTH Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
really comment 73, I’m a married Lesbian and I have a less likely chance of contracting HIV then a straight male. Your blaming AIDS on the gays? It started in Africa, you gonna blame it on the blacks too? IDK the people whining about the cover saying they are just expressing their rights and are not biggots would not sound so much like biggots if they made a point that they just didnt like it instead of acting like a bunch of tards. As for Gays getting special rights well it should not be so. One guy pointed out bad seeds will pull cards regardless. The race card, the girl card the reverse race card and the gay card. Dont let that posion you on all. For all the Christian issues, church and state are seperate. An atheist isnt thrown out for serving his country. And if w/DADT you already knew they were gay then why the need for new shower stalls etc? To me I don’t think us gays you to be all sensitive to us, dont want to flaunt anything. Gays in the militarty just dont want to be in fear of being kicked out just for being gay and want to be able to share their love for the military with their partner and not have to be ashamed or to be forced to exclude them or hide them from events. As for joking around I have know problem with calling something gay or joking about any body as long as it is good humor and not out of hatred. A good joke is a good joke, political correctness is overated, its the hatred that is wrong.
mstersmith Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
You can simmer down it is still the Marine Corps. Just like a spouse or date wearing inappropriate evening wear would be asked to leave a MC Ball, a man in a dress would be asked also. Politely and having nothing to do with prejudice. Men’s formal evening wear is clearley defined. I think we need to calm the hell down a bit. This is not the Navy or any other branch of service that puts up with BS publicity stunts. Just because they hump at night has nothing to do with the clearley defined ettiquate followed in the Corps. That will not change.
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
Your missing the point, you want equal rights for what you believe, but you don’t want the added attention that comes with being Gay or Lesbian. It was always your choice and I don’t judge anyone for their choices. I just don’t like the added knowledge that now something that was best kept a secret is forced on us to accept. What makes you so special that people that don’t condon this conduct should bend over backwards (no pun intended) to accommodate your way of life. Just for the record, I don’t believe for one minute that you will out Marine anyone. Someone eluded too the Marine Times putting this on the front page, the reason is obvious to get people talking about it. Toe is right, this is about votes, and personally I don’t give a shit whether your gay, as long as it doesn’t cost me more. But from all indications, your way of life is costing more for those that don’t participate.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
@ Maverick – see here is where you start off wrong. Marines don’t have Sarges that the Army. We are Sergeants, Staff Sergeants, Master Sergeants, etc. The BS training is nothing more than a political tool as Big Toe noted for paying back votes. Not my problem that gays and lesbians have had to serve in silence. My problem is how this is being force feed to us, b/c society is crying wolf. DADT was working fine and then some tic turd had to fix what wasn’t broken.

Serve honorable and speed your liberty doing what you want within the guidelines of the UCMJ.

And here is food for thought – use the “N” word as an example. Notice how blacks use it to befriend another black? Let another race do that, and you get a racist. Case in point, now you will have similar call signs to gays and lesbians, but a straight person better not say it.

Again, this is not a two way street, with all parties trying to come to a collective agreement and understanding on everything that is of a concern. It is a one way liberal street will political finger prints all over it.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Msgt – if you scratch your ass to the point of bleeding i think you should be more concerned with impulse control than contracting aids. Also, how often do you share your razor and toothbrush with other people? That is quite gross and if your motive behind a “gay tax” is to have enough capital for everyone to afford their own toothbrushes then i suggest making personal financial management a required MCI to avoid unnecessary taxing.

“Although it is recommended that you use blood and body fluid precautions whenever you know you may come into contact with nasal secretions, breast milk, stool, sputum, sweat, tears, urine, or vomit, the precautions are not absolutely necessary unless these fluids contain visible traces of blood. Blood and body fluid precautions apply to saliva only when it contains blood or in a dental or oral surgery setting where contamination with blood is likely.

The best practice is to always use blood and body fluid precautions, even when there are no visible traces of blood and no chance of contamination with blood.” -webmd

if kissing had any sort of significant rate of hiv/aids transmission there would have been an epidemic to the point of mass quarantines long ago.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
I beg to differ ,,, MsterSmith the door is open for homosexuals to serve openly , all fine and good . Now whats going to happen when transgender or cross dressers want to be open … We all know it’s just around the corner , they deserve their right to serve openly , and not being a hater or bigot about it , I’m a realist .
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
@ MSgt Retired – bend over backward – no pun intended. Your killing me! LMFAO dude!
mstersmith Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
I just dont think so BigToe. Can you hold hands while in uniform (silly in cammies I know)? No you cant. Do you know why? Ettiquate. While out dated it is some thing that the Marine Corps still prides itself on and for good reason. It helps return more productive citizens to the scociety regardless of were that scocety is on the political spectrum. Men wear mens clothes, women wear womens clothes. We are not that far left of the blast marker and I doubt we will. Now if it is a dudein a dress that is hot is it still a dude? Only those who have been to Asia can answer that one lol.
Darwin Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
If someone is willing to join the Marine Corps and risk life and limb its fine with me if they are gay.
If its a problem for you then grow up and stop being so ignorant. In 20 years people will look back and wonder why this was even an issue. Maybe less.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:46 pm
“Hold up Mav … Why you got to be so ” Agressive ” this isn’t a Moveon.org rally . And if you think this doesn’t affect EVERYONE involved then your dumber than your sudden outburst . It does affect everyone in some way or another and I don’t mean that Marines will be dressing up in pink spandex , very classy there Sis.”

^ If standing up when I hear people spread stupid discriminatory crap about gays and lesbians is considered “aggressive”, then yeah, I guess I’m just one militant b*tch. Or maybe I just don’t think I should be treated like a second class citizen when I pay taxes just like everybody else. Either/or.

“I’m no longer active but I do have a son that is active and YES I have some legit questions.”

^ Such as? I understand the barracks concern, but I just don’t think anyone should get to bring lovers into the barracks, period. That’s what weekend passes are for.

“Your missing the point, you want equal rights for what you believe, but you don’t want the added attention that comes with being Gay or Lesbian.”

^ It’s not a belief, it’s not a choice, it’s a sexual orientation present in roughly 10% of the population (probably higher in the military, to be honest).

Do some research. Your opinion that it is a choice is a “belief” (and a false one).

“I just don’t like the added knowledge that now something that was best kept a secret is forced on us to accept.”

^ Why is it best kept a secret? How come straight people can be as open as they like about their personal lives, but I have to lie about mine? That doesn’t make any sense. Being gay is not “best kept a secret” because there’s nothing shameful about it.

“What makes you so special that people that don’t condon this conduct should bend over backwards (no pun intended) to accommodate your way of life.”

What makes us so special that people condemn us, harass us, beat us, and murder us for it?

There’s your answer.

It’s not about “special rights”, it’s about preventing “special wrongs”.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I hope your right MsterSmith , I really do , but I’m not going to hold my breath . We’ll meet up in about 10 years and re-live this conversation and see what it brings . I for one believe it will be , because they will use the same argument that every other special interest group has used and win due to weak leadership and our inability to say ” HELL to the NO !!! ” .

yes , I’ve been to Asia and know what you mean ..hahaha
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Again you ridicule my remarks in an effort to evoke contemptuous laughter from all the readers of this article, how childish. If you have gleened nothing else from my comments, I shouldn’t have to pay extra because you want to be different. As long as I didn’t know it, I was happy to contribute. But now that I know that it contributes to my high medical premiums, I don’t want to play. I shouldn’t have to accept something that I don’t believe in or condon. My issue is that your way of life shouldn’t cost me, and it does.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Ok, everybody hang-fire. I got a meeting with the Grand Wizard. Ah damn, my robe and cone head helmet are in the cleaners! Just kidding. Carry on.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
“I shouldn’t have to accept something that I don’t believe in or condon.”

^ You don’t. If you don’t agree that all men deserve equality under constitutional law, you’re fully within your rights to not serve. And frankly, I’d be happier if people who thought like you didn’t.

“But now that I know that it contributes to my high medical premiums, I don’t want to play.”

^ Actually, lesbians have the lowest incidence of HIV contraction out of every possible sexual combination, gay OR straight.

Just sayin’.

“Not my problem that gays and lesbians have had to serve in silence. My problem is how this is being force feed to us, b/c society is crying wolf.”

^ Er, I don’t think you understand what “crying wolf” means….
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
If its a problem for you then grow up and stop being so ignorant. In 20 years people will look back and wonder why this was even an issue. Maybe less.

Exactly my point on insulting rather than answering questions or even attempting to discuss the issues like an adult .

@ Maverick , do you honestly think that now this is in the open that people are not going to bring their partners in the barracks . What if both are active duty , whats to stop them .
Is a hetero couple thats active going to have that same benefit . Equality is a two way street and if they are not afforded the same opportunity then it’s just as wrong .

Are gays going through training also ,yes I think thats a legit question . Think about it , heteros are going to have to make adjustments to the way they have lived their entire lives no matter how old they are in age . Lifestye , fear , phobia , or whatever it’s a legit issue for the people that posses it
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
A while back you called me uninformed, you continually breakdown my comments and others to be more assertive in your replies, yet you don’t acknowledge we have a valid point. For the record, I have been retired long time, and this only effects me in the pocketbook. You haven’t acknowledged that or grasped it yet. I don’t make issue with the fact that you are gay, I make issue that you are reaching into my wallet without permission. Special Rights and Special Wrongs, Hogwash! I’ve been around along time, never assaulted a homosexual, not one time have I insulted anyone in my comments here or anywhere else. I had a position of authority in the Marine Corps, and regardless whether I knew about their orientation I treated Marines fairly. You told me to research, well why don’t you take some of your advice. Here is an interesting article you should enjoy.

http://www.africaspeaks.com/articles/2005/0903.html
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:48 pm
“Maverick , do you honestly think that now this is in the open that people are not going to bring their partners in the barracks . What if both are active duty , whats to stop them.”

^ Um….military professionalism?

“Are gays going through training also ,yes I think thats a legit question.”

Everyone is going through DADT repeal training. Regardless of your sexual orientation. So I don’t even know why this is a beef.

“A while back you called me uninformed, you continually breakdown my comments and others to be more assertive in your replies, yet you don’t acknowledge we have a valid point.”

And that valid point is????????

“For the record, I have been retired long time, and this only effects me in the pocketbook. You haven’t acknowledged that or grasped it yet.”

I’m fully aware you’re retired. I would have guessed it if you hadn’t stated it outright. And how exactly is this going to affect your pocketbook, sir? Can you give me a breakdown of the expense reports?

Didn’t think so.

“I’ve been around along time, never assaulted a homosexual, not one time have I insulted anyone in my comments here or anywhere else.”

“Your opinion of homosexuals is insulting and misinformed.
I had a position of authority in the Marine Corps, and regardless whether I knew about their orientation I treated Marines fairly.”

^ Good. I expect no less from a Marine, which is why I think the DADT repeal is a bunch of caterwauling over nothing. Gays and lesbians are already in the military and lots of them are already out – the troops know this is a non-issue. Canada has had openly gay troops since 1993 and it has not affected their readiness in the slightest.

I don’t understand the point of your article about chimps. What does that have to do with DADT repeal?

Here is an interesting video you should enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP4clbHc4Xg
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
if you believe that article MSGT retired then how can you blame the AIDS epidemic on the Gays on not the government you fought so hard to defend?
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
Progressive liberal bullshit, I’m not the one that said Aids came from Africa, one of you said it. I’m not blaming the Aids epidemic on the gays, you are more victimized by it because studies have shown that Gays spread the virus in greater numbers, and I posted that research which you have seem to dismiss. Stop twisting things to make yourself seem more intellectual then others. Your Gay so what, who gives a shit, get out of my wallet.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Out of the eight years I served I’ve seen a few do things not permitted . from smoking pot , sneaking girls into the barracks , to drinking on duty , and yes the dreaded going UA . So no the ” Professionalism answer isn’t going to fly .

If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks .
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
you can’t tel Maverick in one breath she is not responding to your questions and in another fault her for trying to answer them.

I have a question for those against gays being able to just state they are gay in the military…how is it special treatment to simply not have to deny they are gay? Noone is asking to have sex in the barracks, noone is asking for special promotions. they simply dont want to have to be discharged just for being gay and not have to hide the fact that they have a same sex partner. If a straight man was told he could not let people know he had a wife but instead had to hide it would that be fair?
The military is not all of a sudden gonna be the set of Queer as folks or the L word. That is a stereotype. The straight community has just as many “girly men” and “tom boyish”girls as the gay community has “Feminine women” and “jock homos”. Rules of conduct are rules of conduct and should be uphold for all.

As for the training, personally I think its crock, you have said over and over that you already know of the gays and have worked by them for year now, so now they can say, ya your right I am gay. No training sensitive crap needed. Its the straight political staff demanding the training not the gays. As for jokes and blacks calling each other nigga and homos calling each other fags but its wrong for an “outsider”. well I think that is BS too. Anyone with half a brain can tell the context of someone using a phrase to tear someone down or out of playful jokn around and I think all people should lighten up on that issue, that’s just Gay and not the good kind.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
“Stop twisting things to make yourself seem more intellectual then others. Your Gay so what, who gives a shit, get out of my wallet.”

*than
*You’re
*gay

Fixed that for you. And I don’t have to twist your words to make you look uninformed sir, you do a bang-up job of it yourself.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Msgt – so your medical payments are altered by the statistic implication that homosexuals are prone to hiv/aids. then should we ban all races that are more genetically prone to diseases? should we ban all people with any sort of medical history in their families? your concern with your wallet is quite annoying. if its that big of an issue cut some of your frivolous spending and study state and federal taxes on how to retain as much of your money as possible.
LCpl. Klein Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
This IS NOT going to go the way the writers at MarineCorpsTimes want it to go. It’s going to go quite the other way, for the very simple and irrefutable reason that this will prove to have the disciplinary impact of having men and women share showers, head facilities, and bunks. Further, it’s going to create such chaos, in the form of lawsuits, discharges, and insubordination, that the Marine Corps will be unrecognizable to anyone. This last result is the liberal’s dream. The liberal has HATED the Marine Corps because we have resisted the hardest at attempts to shoehorn us into modernity. Well, on Sept. 20th, the liberal will have breached the FINAL firewall of the Marine Corps, and I PLEDGE TO ALL OF YOU, this will have been a bridge too far!
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Researchers believe that sometime in the 1930s a form of simian immunodeficiency virus jumped to humans in central Africa. The mutated virus becomes HIV-1. As with all theories its a theoriy but yes I was being sarcastic because you were blaming AIDS on gays, yes you were and I simply wanted to know if you were going to blame it on the blacks too.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
Wow. I’ve actually LOL’d IRL more on this thread than any other. Ever.

Someone remind me what stance I’m taking on this issue again?

What WAS the issue again? Oh yeah – the GIANT WE’RE GAY cover.

I’d like to know (just out of morbid curiosity) what the closet gay who wants to stay in the closet has to say about all this business. Or the gay who’s not really gay but acts gay to get the chicks. What does he think?

Nobody will ever be able to completely appease everyone at the same time on one issue. Someone will always be butt-hurt about something that pleases someone else (get the pun there? It’s a butt-secks joke).

I will say this, as it was pointed out in someone’s post that I’m completely comfortable in my own heterosexuality, the only thing that this changes (other than the obvious adjustments to BAH, TriCare, and some SNCO’s “ability to lead”) is now you just may not be able to say “That’s gay” or “You’re gay” or “That’s as queer as Gonzalez” or my personal favorite “A warm mouth is a warm mouth”, which I KNOW every Marine has said or laughed at at least once. Including you who are laughing right now.

Look at it like this, the leaders say “Hey ladies and gents, you can’t say faggot, or homo, or queer, or pillow biter, or fudge packer, or carpet muncher, etc.” Just like they say “Hey gents, you can’t say racially charged words like the “N” word”, which was brought up earlier.

Guess what? Marines are a close group of turds who accept each other no matter their flaws, gender, race, or religion. This means that LCpl Schmuckatelli says to LCpl Binotz-Diaz “Something something something wet-back joke.” and LCpl Binotz-Diaz, who may have been offended comes back with “Rather be a wet-back than a fudge-packer”. Then they laugh it off after a quick bickering and move along.

Nothing is more homo-erotic than the all Marine favorites, like “Fruit Basket”, or “Credit Card Swipes”, or “Good Games”, or “Oil Checks”, or “Goats, Bat-Wings, Brains” or drawing giant wieners on bathroom walls (circa Iraq/Afghanistan port-a-shitters). Some of these things are what some straight Marines do for a good laugh (and I’m not implicating myself by any stretch of the imagination) but are going to have to be rethought.

That is what inevitably happens. Leadership sets the “no-no” rules, and Marines being Marines push the envelope. The gays will get thick skin (if they don’t have thick skin already) and they’ll punch back. For example, see posts 48-52.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
“If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks.”

^ So if they’re just dropping by for a visit (no sex involved) then what’s the issue? “No women in men’s barracks” is a rule that has nothing to do with a person’s sexuality, it’s about having mixed genders in shared quarters.

“Out of the eight years I served I’ve seen a few do things not permitted . from smoking pot , sneaking girls into the barracks , to drinking on duty , and yes the dreaded going UA . So no the ” Professionalism answer isn’t going to fly.”

^ If gays act unprofessionally, they should be as accountable for their behavior as any of the bad boys you mentioned. Easy peasy. But hanging out with your lover of the same sex is not dishonorable conduct, or anywhere on par with breaking regulations regarding drug use, barracks rules, drinking on duty, etc…

“Its the straight political staff demanding the training not the gays.”

^ This.

“As for jokes and blacks calling each other nigga and homos calling each other fags but its wrong for an “outsider”. well I think that is BS too. Anyone with half a brain can tell the context of someone using a phrase to tear someone down or out of playful jokn around and I think all people should lighten up on that issue, that’s just Gay and not the good kind.”

^ I don’t know any gay man or lesbian that isn’t up to the kind of good-natured teasing that heterosexual soldiers submit each other to regarding who they sleep with, as long as the responses are not of a “YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN THE FIERY LAKE OF DOOM” variety.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
“I’d like to know (just out of morbid curiosity) what the closet gay who wants to stay in the closet has to say about all this business. Or the gay who’s not really gay but acts gay to get the chicks. What does he think?”

^ This is what kills me. People assume that just because of DADT repeal, the gays and lesbians are going to go cartwheeling through the streets going “Free at last! Free at last!”

Erm, no. I’m proud to be a lesbian, but frankly my love life is not really anybody’s business. Most gays and lesbians feel that way, especially since we catch so much stigma and shit about it.

We’re a discreet people. So even though the option to be openly gay is going to be there, a lot of people probably still won’t come out, just because they don’t feel like their love lives are anyone’s business.
Timothy Kincaid Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
anymouse

“I am a ginger who has been discriminated and verbally abused for way too long. I demand rights. Just kidding, I am a ginger but I laugh it off, throw an insult back where it came from, and go back to work. My choices are dye my hair or live with it. What I don’t do is cry about it like a fag.”

I’m curious. I am not as familiar with the discrimination that you laugh off so I hope you can clarify it for me.

Was it illegal to be ginger in every state of the union until 1962? Was it still illegal in 12 states until 2003 when the Supreme Court said that the Constitution actually applies to all citizens – even the ginger ones?

Is it illegal for gingers to marry in 45 states? Have any states passed laws using language deliberately and intentionally designed to make it clear that they not only didn’t welcome ginger people in their state or see them as equal, but that they hate ginger people simply because they happen to be ginger? Cuz that would be a pretty crappy thing to do, man.

Has any Congressman ever proposed that gingers be exiled to an island to die? On the floor of the US House of Representatives?

Have any people currently running for President of the United States say, “It’s a very sad life. It’s part of Satan, I think, to say this is ginger”?

Or maybe they decided to have a vote on whether gingers can have the same rights as “normal” people. Sure, that could happen.

Or maybe there are school boards who refuse to let ginger kids get together to provide support for each other? Do principles say that they don’t want immoral gingers influencing the other kids?

Or maybe last year one student walked into his computer class and put two bullets in the back of another student, because he was ginger. Or maybe there were people murdered for being ginger this past year?

And what about the personal, anymouse? Have you ever had any potential employer smile that tight smile and say, “sorry, we just don’t have any openings right now” when you knew they were lying? Or any well intentioned person ask, “Now when are you going to settle down and find a nice hair color?”

And what about when they tell you that they don’t mind people who are ginger… “if they don’t shove it down my throat.” By which they mean if you do anything, anywhere, at any time that gives a hint that you might be ginger. And should you ever suggest that you think gingers should be entitled to have the same laws as everyone else… well, then you are militant activist raging ginger that hates God, the family, and America.

And I’m sure that it must gall you that gingers are required to pay higher taxes. Literally. As crazy as it sounds, gingers are taxed on employmenf benefits that other employees are not taxed on – because they are ginger. (bet you didn’t know that, did you?)

And I bet, anymouse, that they tell you that it’s no big deal, just man up.

But you know what I would find intollerable if I were you, anymouse? It would be if some flippant jerk pretended that he too faced discrimination and just laughed off the fact that as of today you, a ginger, are still not legally entitled to hold the job you hold, do the work you do, and have to lie about it if anyone suspects that under that bad dye-job you’re ginger.

Because you know something, anymouse, anyone who would do that to you would be a pretty worthless piece of mouse-poop.
MSgt Retired Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
More insults, is that the gay mantra now. It’s hilarious reading how you justify your existence. This is how you’re gonna win approval, by brow beating people with inane rheotric of how badly you have been treated in the equality category. Good luck in all your endeavors.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Outstanding ,,,

More take it or make adjustments to take it … The beauty of that is eventually everyone else’s money is going to run out .

My issue isn’t money , I know we’re screwed fiscally anyway you cut it . I also could care less if your gay , lesbian , love chickens or love to rub your groin on dryer sheets , it means nothing to me . I work with gays both flaming and others quiet and respectful as long as you do your job and have the next ones back it’s all that matters .

My issue is simply this , I don’t support or agree with the lifestyle on many grounds . On the same note I don’t fear you , not intimidated by thinking you can out work me . I consider myself well educated and non bigoted , I also attempt to show respect and expect the same in return .
I believe we would all get more accomplished if headlines like is on this magazine , among certain attitudes were sat aside , and also if people tried not to confuse ” Tolerance ” with
” acceptance “.
I for one can tolerate it and work with it , but I will never accept it ,
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
If both Marines are active duty and the same sex , what is going to stop them . I’m not talking about spending the night or getting a quickie , I’m talking about just dropping by for a visit etc etc .. If the rule is still around that we had , the opposite sex is not permitted in the barracks.”

Wrong , a hypothetical here …

We are both females ( you did say you were ) and we are partners and I just happen top stroll into your barracks to hang while I wait for you to get ready for chow . We’re not having sex , yet we’re GF/GF … and we’re together in your barracks .

A straight active duty couple cannot do that , and if homosexuals can do that and hetero couples can’t , it’s wrong .As frivolous as this seems to many , it’s an issue and Uncle Sugar has left YET ANOTHER DOOR OPEN for another issue to step through . My question is when is enough , enough .
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
well said unimpressed.

During my first deployment we had a guy that admitted he was a bisexual. no one really cared except when he would try to join in on the grab ass equipped with a creepy smile. at that point we would abandon whatever stupid game we were playing and walk away. kind of disturbing but nothing worse than having an unwanted sexual advance from a fat/ugly female. it didnt stop anything it just made some things a little awkward.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
“We are both females ( you did say you were ) and we are partners and I just happen top stroll into your barracks to hang while I wait for you to get ready for chow . We’re not having sex , yet we’re GF/GF … and we’re together in your barracks.

A straight active duty couple cannot do that , and if homosexuals can do that and hetero couples can’t , it’s wrong .As frivolous as this seems to many , it’s an issue and Uncle Sugar has left YET ANOTHER DOOR OPEN for another issue to step through . My question is when is enough, enough.”

^ I’d totally be in support of mixed-gender barrack law if there wasn’t so much heterosexual rape in the military.

For reals.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
“More insults, is that the gay mantra now. It’s hilarious reading how you justify your existence. This is how you’re gonna win approval, by brow beating people with inane rheotric of how badly you have been treated in the equality category. Good luck in all your endeavors.”

^ You still haven’t made your valid point Sergeant! Don’t go away angry now! I haven’t kow-towed to your heterosexual lifestyle yet!
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@ Mav That’s my point… if no-one is going cartwheeling, why the fuss by MCTimes to begin with and why the 130 post discussion trying to explain one stance or the other? I stand by my “It’s no big deal, who cares” post.

“I’m proud to be a lesbian, but frankly my love life is not really anybody’s business. Most gays and lesbians feel that way, especially since we catch so much stigma and shit about it.”

^ Just like Cpl Douchebaggery who swears up and down he got laid by like 10 chicks this past weekend… WHO EFFING CARES? Not saying that you did whatever lesbians do with 10 chicks in a weekend and then bragged about it to the Marines around you… still, if you did – WHO EFFING CARES?

The whole thing is blown way out of proportion. The MCTimes front page does, in fact at first glance, insinuate (without looking at the subtext) that Marines – in whole – are gay.

Grunts and Non-03′s alike will all, yet again, have to eat their “Shit Sandwich” and big rubber green weenies for everyone. Love the Corps or get the hell out. Flamboyancy is also called eccentrics which is prejudicial to good order and discipline and applies to ALL Marines, gay or straight.

Good leaders will figure out a way through the awkwardness and ill-comfort. Great leaders will stay with our beloved Corps rather than reject it because of a policy set in place by the CiC and lead it to the next era of complainers and short-timers.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
exactly how was that insulting by pointing out some facts that you call rhetoric? That just ignorance
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
I’d totally be in support of mixed-gender barrack law if there wasn’t so much heterosexual rape in the military.

Doesn’t matter , every hetero isn’t guilty of rape the same as every gay individual isn’t guilty of bed hopping ..

@ Yup , if you unimpressed is directed at me I really couldn’t care less . I wasn’t trying to impress anyone , just being honest .

Was the Bisexual male or female , got lost in the translation . I haven’t seen or read any law or anywhere in the Bill of Rights that says anyone has to grab ass with someone they didn’t want to .
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
“I for one can tolerate it and work with it , but I will never accept it,”

^ I respect your position, and I know that I personally at least am not asking anyone to “accept” homosexuality. You’re entitled to your beliefs as long as you leave me to serve in peace.

You don’t have to like gays and lesbians. You just have to leave them alone if you disagree with the way that they live. That’s it. No sermons, no gay bashing, nada. Just cold shoulder them and move along. They’ll find tons of supporters who will accept them, the disapproval of a few will not deter them from serving. We’ve been disapproved of and badmouthed our whole lives, it’s not like we aren’t callused to discrimination or anything.

Why do you have to tolerate gays and lesbians?

‘Cause it’s a free country. And even if you believe that homosexuality is a choice (as a homosexual, I don’t, since I certainly wouldn’t choose to be ostracized for life over loving people of the same gender as myself, and have been gay as far back as I can remember) then a person still has the right to choose for him or herself in the United States.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
“Doesn’t matter , every hetero isn’t guilty of rape the same as every gay individual isn’t guilty of bed hopping ..”

Maybe not, but the statistics speak for themselves.

“That’s my point… if no-one is going cartwheeling, why the fuss by MCTimes to begin with and why the 130 post discussion trying to explain one stance or the other? I stand by my “It’s no big deal, who cares” post.”

^ Because it’s a matter of civil rights and basic human decency. We deserve respect and acknowledgement for our continued (and unflagging) role in the defense of this country, and I can’t say that I don’t find the magazine cover a little tasteless, but I *can* say that it is as big of a deal to us as the Civil Rights Movement was to blacks, or women’s suffrage was for women.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
@bigtoe – there is a poster called “unimpressed.” i said well said to this person. seems you are getting too heated to read completely =p
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:42 pm
“Just like Cpl Douchebaggery who swears up and down he got laid by like 10 chicks this past weekend… WHO EFFING CARES? Not saying that you did whatever lesbians do with 10 chicks in a weekend and then bragged about it to the Marines around you… still, if you did – WHO EFFING CARES?”

Voyeuristic straight men? *grin*
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
@ Maverick , there we can reach common ground ..

I will revert back to my original post by saying this is nothing more than a political move by a president thats scared shitless and needs votes . Now whats going to happen if the next pres repeals it …
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
“Voyeuristic straight men? *grin*”

Touche. Funny you say voyeuristic and opens a completely different can of worms… ask any Marine, or man for that matter, if they think lesbians are hot. Maybe these guys are more tolerable of the gays than they care to admit.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:49 pm
unimpressed, I think it would be sad that you cant joke about it just because its not politically correct.

as for the other person comment about the grab ass, how was it not any more bisexual for the “straight” guys to play i before the bisexual guy jumped in. Straight guys do some of the gayest things around, I don’t get it. I have three brothers, one an ex marine. All of them straight. They have plenty of gay friends (partly because of me) but the stupid gay stuff they do as men doesnt stop because of who is playing. They trust in their friendship that its all in fun and are secure in themselves.
as far as unwanted advances from fat ugly chick my wife and I dont get bent out of shape everytime some guy makes a pass at one of us, buy me a drink IDC and yes I know your a lesbian trapped in a mans body
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
bigtoe – “Was the Bisexual male or female , got lost in the translation . I haven’t seen or read any law or anywhere in the Bill of Rights that says anyone has to grab ass with someone they didn’t want to .”

^it actually says guy in the post meaning male. also i think you misunderstand my point. its not life was ruined because we were forced to endure this horrible hardship or w/e (sarcasm there if you couldnt tell). no one really cared to the point segregation or setting ground rules. life was actually pretty unchanged because even before we found out he was bisexual we all just though he was sort of creepy anyway. unrelated i know but im not sure im as opposed to your thoughts as you believe.
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
I personally don’t want to see two women kissing anymore than I want to see a guy and a girl swapping spit in the canned beans section at Wal mart … There’s a place for that and it ain’t there … Get a frigging room and keep it private .
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
@ Yup
In your story you said guy at the beginning , at the end you said fat ugly female . Thats why I asked .

As far as the unimpressed comment , I was asking because I was unaware of the other individual . I don’t get heated ever since the VA adjusted my meds . I’m a happy camper now .
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
Will gay men be issued vaseline, PVS piping and a gerbil now in the corps?
BigToe Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! Not stoolpushr ….. LMAO !!!!!
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
“Will gay men be issued vaseline, PVS piping and a gerbil now in the corps?”

^Are you asking because you hope so for personal reasons? All Marines know that the Marine Corps doesn’t just start issuing new gear to make it easier on them. The old gear still works. You’ve never heard of a light coat of CLP?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Holy hell! Gerbils, chickens, dryer sheets – this is fn awesome!

So, I’m guessing that Gay as a football bat or wrong as two boys fkn, or my favorite – hotter than two fgts in a foot locker are no longer proper statements? Just asking. You know how us old breed MSgts are. LMFAO!
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Well i’m going to demand it because newer is better. I bet the gay men in the army will get the family sized vaseline bottle. Seriously though, don’t expect crude jokes like mine to stop. Not that I give two rats ass about someone’s sexuality but i make fun of everyone equally. Doodoo chasers, bushwackers, the awful driving asians, and the middle easterners who spontaneously combust will always have a zinger by yours truly.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Oh, hell yeah I’m ok with it, I just don’t want to have to pay someone else’s way. But seriously – are the lesbians HOT!? I’m just asking.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
@wth – “as far as unwanted advances from fat ugly chick my wife and I dont get bent out of shape everytime some guy makes a pass at one of us, buy me a drink IDC and yes I know your a lesbian trapped in a mans body”

so is that to say that you would be fine if someone started playing with your wives tits/pussy in front of you or she would be okay if someone grabbed your dick? i think you underestimate the potentially homosexual acts that happen in the infantry. a creepy grin can change everything around. i dont particularly appreciate you being a douche but i suppose thats what happens on the internet eh?
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Gay as a football bat isn’t wrong, however brown streaks on the front of your underwear is pretty gay.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
No real lesbians are not hot, that is just a fantasy. You know what they look like? Larry the cable guy except they’re not going bald.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
wow… MCTimes moderators hit the panic button and this entire thread self destructs in:

5…
4…
3…
2…
1….
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
this is what’s wrong with America, asshurt (no pun intended) by silly jokes. Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
@ stoolpushr – this is some funny shit! “and the middle easterners who spontaneously combust will always have a zinger by yours truly.” Oh, doodoo pusher was good too!
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
@ unimpressed – good, if it blows, maybe it’ll take the democrats with it!
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
@ stoolpushr – you mean the lesbians on pornos are not real? “F!” That’s false advertisement. GD Larry Flint. hahaha. Larry the Cable Guy – nice!
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:14 pm
toleration is fine you don’t have to except anything at least for me, but how can something be tolerated if it is kept hush hush
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
I will say this, I’m impressed with the homosexual education that has been force fed to me the past few months. I was previously ignorant to the fact there’s a masculine feminine person in the relationship. Imagine all this time when i thought gay men flipped a coin and maybe called tails for tails, hahahahahaha
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
@ stoolpushr – “force fed” nice! I sure hope some clown shoe is on duty with the MCTimes right now reading these response.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:23 pm
@ stoolpushr – “this is what’s wrong with America, asshurt (no pun intended) by silly jokes. Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.”

I think I just caughed up a kidney laughing! I thought I had some good one liners, but you are the king!
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Those were a poor choice of words on the MCtimes and to some it was just as offensive as the jokes I’m posting. However I’m standing by my freedom to act like an ass.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Oh dude I have tons, I’m actually a standup comedian part time. I have a ton of jokes and no minority group or majority group is spared.
Wondering Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Ok so DADT got repealed and you can be openly gay come Sept. 20…. Just remember UCMJ still bans Sodomy (Art. 125) http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm Yes be openly gay, but don’t have sex with your “partner.” You can be punished for sodomy, but then again every straight service member could be punished for it too.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Freedom to act like an ass! Fuck it – 1st Amendment, that’s what we are talking about, getn this out in the open and hashing it out! If jokes come into play and they are laughed at – no one can get made, unless they are specifically targeting at an individual out of hate.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:28 pm
I am an equal opportunity joker, if your asshurt I’m hear, have no fear, i will make fun of your vaseline coated rear.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
I don’t know what’s funnier the fact that these higher ups are going to talk about lifting sodomy or the fact that someone took the time to make this part of the UCMJ because it was clearly a problem in the past.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Hey wondering – the bed room is off limits on this topic. What goes on in there, stays in there. Like Vegas. Bottom line, there will not be morning formations with lines marked saying straight guys who got a BJ here, those who gave a BJ here, those who got their pipes cleaned here, or those who did the cleaning – there. This is all off limits, unless it is a sex crime, absent same on same sex or male on female.
yup Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
@wondering – not true. they gave us a brief on faqs regarding the rules and that actually came up as a smart ass comment and it was in the faq sheet read to us by our sgt maj. sodomy is now allowed so go assfuck all you want!
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
@ stoolpushr – ok dude, you have to be a grunt! I know it is sterotypical, but damn that last one was the best!
SergeantUSMC Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
The cover of this week’s Marine Corps Times is an utter disgrace to Straight Marines. Not putting a face on the cover, but rather just the uniform that I don and what we as Marines wear prominently with the words “Get over it, We’re Gay”. To me, and I’m sure many others, this looks like it is trying to say that the Marine Corps in general is GAY. I’m sorry, but the Marine Corps is Hardcore and it is unfair to say that the Marine Corps is Gay!
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
LoL 03 i am.
Wondering Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
All there has to be is proof it happened. And pictures tend to always end up floating around on the internet.
Wondering Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:36 pm
@SergeantUSMC until there is a change made to the UCMJ, it is still off limits.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:38 pm
Will there be a new gay comic for the military? Similar to Terminal Lance? Maybe call it,….Condoms stuck in my butt…..RumpRangers deep inserts? No?….How about Lawnmowing for wookie monsters?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
@ stoolpushr – been around them for 20 yrs before I retired. You fkrs come up with some off the wall shit. Flaming burritos off the 3rd decks, bat wings, the brain (which I use) etc. If these responses cannot be broken down and looked at in the manner that we are accepting this, just need to polish (no pun) some rough edges and itll be all good. If not, stand by for the gerbil in ur ass jokes and dryer sheets on your bean bag!
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
um i dont have a dick unless you count the one put away in a drawer, that was far more of a douche statement. and in the scenario they were all on deployment together not strangers and I simply don’t get how a bunch of straight men playing grab ass is any less gay then one bi-sexual guy thrown in the mix, for all you know a closeted homo could have been grabbin ass with one of the guys already. trust me they dont all set off gaydar. I was simply pointing out I have seen plenty of straight guys do those stupid gay ass grabbin stuff and they didnt get all bent out of shape because one of the friends happened to be gay cuz they trusted each other and their own sexuality. Creepy looks can be misread but eh maybe not and if the look was valid that he was getting his rocks off well I suppose I can see why they didnt let him play with all the other boys.

Maybe I missed the point I thought they were all buddies and had a comradery thing goin between them. As for someone grabbin my wife, well if we were in a setting like described where everyone was doin that back and forth I guess we would all be doing it however girls dont really do that jackass episode stuff. Although occasionally friends do feel her up because she does have nice boobs. Come to think of it it is mostly gay guys lmao.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
@ Wondering and SergeantUSMC – the sodomy thing is not going to come up unless it is a sex crime. As I said earlier the bed room is off limits. The UCMJ and leaders are not going there. Trust me, I am a Paralegal. As with ROE, LOAC and all other classes we received and taught, this was one part of DADT that was particularly a concern – but again, it only comes up if it is a sex crime.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Since 1985 federal rules say that a man who had sex with another man even once since 1977 is banned permanently from donating blood. Has this rule been changed?
mstersmith Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
BigToe took me a bit to get back to you. Real work and all. I hope so I really do. This Marine is one leader who will continue to tow the line and allow our brothers/sister to serve openly. As long as it does not make a mockery of our warrior ethos I could care less. Attempt to pull a political stunt I will break my foot off in some ones @$$. I would rather be punished for the right thing than allowing the standard to slip because of special interest.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
So who are these sodomy enforces that likely performs countless hours of breaching to catch backdoor breaching in the act with their high powered lens cameras. Ok seriously i had enough fun for the night.

All Marines should behave in a professional manner, don’t take things to heart. Its still a brotherhood.
Allan Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
This is for MSgt, USMC retired……………..”its good that you are retired, because you and your bigoted, sick, snotty points of views are dying…….. I don’t know who you think you are impressing with the sheer amount of illogical sick rhetoric you have tossed onto this comment portion, but if you think you and your attitude has any place leading men in any way, shape or form, you are sadly mistaken. Get ‘fked’ will you.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
Stoolpushr-I found your jokes to be funny and I am going to have to remember a few but you made it clear you are an equal opportunity jokester so I believe you were being lighthearted and not a bigot or anything-sometimes in written form that can be a lil hard to portray but I think i read you correctly
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@ Allan now if you can’t play nice, you’ll have to take your green weenie and go home. The old salty Master Sergeant has his views which may not appeal to you but hey, free country. We all fought and bled so you guys and girls can bat for the same softball team.

I’ll say it a million times, you can’t change peoples’ ideology over night, and for some at all. So just as you’ll get tolerance from most to be openly homosexual, you’ll have to learn to tolerate the fact that not everyone will accept your way of life.

In the meantime, we’ll have the open forums to vent all our frustrations. Take the good with the bad. Minorities and women didn’t achieve equality overnight and most still deal with the bullshit.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
unimpressed, i’m impressed
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
@ stoolpushr – look at Allan, wow he has smoke rolling out of all orifices. Look here pin head…, like stoolpushr said don’t take it to heart. If you read all the posts, mine included, you’ll see there is not racial points or bigot points, there are valid points on both sides that still need addressed. Moreover, the last few postings, if you have noticed (probably due to your small pea size brain) is that we starting coming together on this subject and laughing. Hence the ethos. Lastly, there allan, I have lead Marines in garrison and combat, and I have lost marines in combat. So you can go fuck yourself if you think you are any better than anyone else posting anything here. I can bet that I probably was coming out of Iraq on my first tour when you were trying to figure out which end was up. That would be 1991 there shit for brains. Your reply and comments are a reminder as to why I retired, not b/c of gays and lesbians wanting to serve openingly, it was b/c of narrow minded, college brat bitches like you who think you know it all, but have next to no expierence. Do your job, have fun at it, joke with and lead your Marines. Be glad that you are alive and with all of your limbs. Unlike some of my wounded brother and sisters.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
“I personally don’t want to see two women kissing anymore than I want to see a guy and a girl swapping spit in the canned beans section at Wal mart … There’s a place for that and it ain’t there … Get a frigging room and keep it private.”

^ I agree, I don’t like excessive PDA, gay OR straight. Hand-holding is one thing, but nobody should be making out in public, it’s trashy.

“Don’t tell me this isn’t funnier than two blind lesbians in a fish market.”

^ Okay, even I laughed at that one.

“As long as it does not make a mockery of our warrior ethos I could care less.”

^ I don’t think you’re going to have to worry about this, the kinds of gays and lesbians who join the military *despite* it’s reputation of being unfriendly to queers are usually the kind of people who have something to prove. And that something is usually the furthest thing from, “We’re here, we’re queer, get used to it.”
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Now see what happens when you stick your hand in the bulldogs food bowl Allan? Skimming isn’t your friend in this forum.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
“Ok so DADT got repealed and you can be openly gay come Sept. 20…. Just remember UCMJ still bans Sodomy (Art. 125) http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm125.htm Yes be openly gay, but don’t have sex with your “partner.” You can be punished for sodomy, but then again every straight service member could be punished for it too.”

For your information, a third of gay men don’t even HAVE anal sex.

Learn something every day, dontcha?
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
i know he got all happy when Stoolpushr started the gay jokes and he was able to chime in and laugh a lil and now allan got him riled up again. damn he might start talking about his wallet some more
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
It will be interesting to watch the first boy scout troop get kicked off a base because of their policy regarding scoutmasters. Any bets as to which service it will be? I’m thinking the Navy will lead the assault on scouting, probably by the same folks who were so eager to see degeneracy extended to Navy chapels.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
@ Unimpressed – GD right! That shit pissed me off. We have been at it for what 5 hours and have all added good points and have laughed. I see only valid concerns, no racial hatred. If someone comes in on the back side of this and skims something, then they miss the point and get the wrong picture and/or the words twisted. Hence the ass chewing (no pun) he just got. We are all brothers and sisters, from different backgrounds and beliefs. Noone is trying to change anyone. We are just asking hard questions that all sides want answered for the greater good of all. Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen, Coasties, etc are here to take care of each other, this country and more importantly those who cannot defend themselves. If someone takes something that we have been talking about out of context – that on them, and they deserve to get blasted. Splash over and out!
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Silly breeders.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
@ wth – that’s the other MSgt. Gotta look at the name. I think his is all together, where mine is spread out. Yeah stoolpushr had me rolling, hell I think all of us. And that’s a good thing – it breaks the ice and we can talk back and forth comfortably.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
lol well I thought I saw a difference in the two but ya i got a lil lost there, I almost thought you signed on twice when I got home from work, hey maybe allan was skimmin and got confused too. hey if its funny its funny
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
MSgt, you need to learn: either you embrace the sodomy and accept it as normal or you’re a bigot. That is the way the template works and that is why it was SO IMPORTANT to get the DODT repeal completed. It will be so slow but eventually you’ll see people who are devout (Mormons, Catholics, Orthodox, Baptist…basically anybody who believes in traditional values) marginalized and forced out of the service. It won’t happen right away, bust rest assured this is the goal.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
huh?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:24 pm
@ wth – funny is funny! @ JNWarren – I’m catholic and I ain’t going to confession and I am not looking fwd to the walking farts after the buthole doctor shoots air in my vrbt box! I’m good!:)
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:27 pm
lmao
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
hey is that how the sodomy police are going to figure it out? by the farts? they will be able to tell the virgins from the non virgins.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
There will come a time when Catholic = Bigot, Mormon = Bigot, Baptist = Bigot, etc. If you don’t accept the sodomy, you’ll be a bigot.

It sounds as idiotic as objecting to somebody saying “Merry Christmas” I know, or objecting to the concept of an “Easter Egg” roll, but I’ve seen/heard both in military facilities.

The idiocy will continue and get worse.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
By the way, has anybody made the case why accepting personnel who are 50 times (or more) likely to be HIV positive and not know it into the military is a good idea?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
“MSgt, you need to learn: either you embrace the sodomy and accept it as normal or you’re a bigot. That is the way the template works and that is why it was SO IMPORTANT to get the DODT repeal completed. It will be so slow but eventually you’ll see people who are devout (Mormons, Catholics, Orthodox, Baptist…basically anybody who believes in traditional values) marginalized and forced out of the service. It won’t happen right away, bust rest assured this is the goal.”

^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!

*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
I wonder if the Times expected the initial outrage to turn into an amusing banter of average Marine-isms. In true-to-form Marine Corps fashion. Suck it, MCTimes.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
“By the way, has anybody made the case why accepting personnel who are 50 times (or more) likely to be HIV positive and not know it into the military is a good idea?”

^ As I’ve already stated, us dykes are less likely to contract HIV than gays or heterosexuals.

Can we just have an all-lesbian fighting force please? That way I won’t have to worry about catching theh AIDS!1! in my water fountains from any of you fools.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
“^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!
*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*”

HAHA! Gay Mafia… who’s your Boss? Vito from Sopranos?!
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Awww, Maverick, while you’re at it make sure none of the kids use the word “Easter” in mid-April at the DoD school functions and for God’s sake, never utter Christmas in the presence of the kids.

One things for sure, hostility to Christianity is a touchstone for degenerates. Make sure you teach the kids that their parents are wrong.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:42 pm
As a practicing Catholic, and please don’t take this the wrong way, until they can clean out the -ehem- “Altar Boy Buddies” you and your religion hold no water here. By the way, haven’t we already argued that religion is probably the biggest source which fuels hatred and intolerance?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
“Awww, Maverick, while you’re at it make sure none of the kids use the word “Easter” in mid-April at the DoD school functions and for God’s sake, never utter Christmas in the presence of the kids.”

Um, I’m a practicing Christian, in case you skimmed through this entire comments section. I even quoted relevant scripture earlier.

“One things for sure, hostility to Christianity is a touchstone for degenerates. Make sure you teach the kids that their parents are wrong.”

^ I will do what all parents should do, and teach my kids that *bigotry* is wrong.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
everyone has aids aids aids aids aids aids aids aids
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Except lesbians. We keep our dicks exceptionally clean. And in various sizes and colors for your pleasure.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:49 pm
“^ OMG, he knows the plan!!!
*runs off to inform for the Gay Mafia*”
but dont forget to stop and buy some milk on the way
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
@ Maverick you’ve got to be the funniest damn lez bean I’ve ever interacted with. Also the first. But don’t let that make you feel there’s nothing to compare it to. Even though there isn’t. But still…
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:51 pm
“but dont forget to stop and buy some milk on the way”

…and pot pourri. And a giant tub of astra-glide.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:52 pm
Unimpressed, human institutions will always have problems. Are RC clergy any more likely to be child molesters than Southern Baptists or Orthodox Jews?

Maverick, you really didn’t answer my question. Why would the military want a subset of the popultation that is 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it?

As regards to being a practicing Christian, I’m sure you are in the same sense that Bill Clinton is or Ted Kennedy was…Andrew Cuomo claims to be a Roman Catholic as he wakes up every morning with his whore.

It’s probably time to develop some intellectual honesty.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
@maverick but i dont get the ones with the hair on them, ya I just dont
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:53 pm
LoL! the religious jokes are hilarious! I was a practicing Catholic (not a very good one). Went to Catholic school (yes the funny little dress uniforms, and mean nuns) and i absolutely hated it. Do you know how embarrassing it is to be caught in a drug store trying to buy condoms while a nun who works at your school catches you? Then she tells me how dirty sex is if i am not married. SO I replied if it’ s so dirty then why do i have to save it for someone that i love? needless to say that got me kicked out faster than a 7.62 out of a smoking ak-47 barrel.

Maverick your breeders joke and dildos joke are also hilarious, I’m recycling them!
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
“I will do what all parents should do, and teach my kids that *bigotry* is wrong.”

Riiiiight…and by extension Roman Catholics are bigots, Greek Orthodox are bigots, Orthodox Jews are bigots, Southern Baptists are bigots, etc.

Thanks for making my case. What denomination are you by the way, that celebrates degeneracy?
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Can someone not have religious beliefs or just baptized and brought into a church and still have nasty butt-secks? What if a man and woman who’ve been married wanna do some oral presentations? Sodomy be damned… I want my oral presentations! That’s why we invented confessions and forgiveness.
Stoolpushr Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
You know what anyone who tells me i can’t get a blowjob can seriously get bent. I tolerate a lot but no one will tell me I can’t get my head
Hunterplt23 Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
Hey just wondering if sodomy is going to still be illegal for the gays like it is for the straights! Since if a soldier talks about anal sex with a woman and another soldier over hears it and it bothers them they can file sexual harrassment charges against said soldier as well as be discharged for the simple act of sodomy with his spouse! As well as blowjobs which are actually against the rules in the Army only authorized sexual position is the MISSIONARY! Anything else CAN be a chapterable offense! And if two gays have sex in said MISSIONARY position is it NOT still sodomy as that is the ONLY way two guys can have actual sex! Just wondering so that EVERYONE can have equal RIGHTS behind closed doors! Or hey maybe we could leave it as do who or what you want in the bedroom just DO NOT talk about it or face getting the boot! And make it fair also if a straight soldier gets the boot for saying this is GAY! ( as we have alllll said I am sure! ) If a said GAY and proud soldier makes comments referring to anything or anyone being straight in a derogatory way that said soldier should also face the BOOT! And then we have NO military people above the grade of private and our flag and way of life gets changed to us having to learn CHINESE when they come over claim the land as THEIRS and we can do NOTHING to stop it!
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 8:59 pm
I’m not a practicing Christian although I was born and raised Catholic and agree with unimpressed “haven’t we already argued that religion is probably the biggest source which fuels hatred and intolerance?”

To be Christ like is very commendable as are the basic foundations behind most religions, however religions in themselves fuel so much of the wars that you are fighting
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
“Maverick, you really didn’t answer my question. Why would the military want a subset of the popultation that is 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it?”

^ Because they’ll find out pretty damned fast in MEPs? I dunno, I find the HIV argument to be intellectually retarded. I’ve hung around tons of gays and lesbians over the past seven years or so, and I’ve never even met someone with HIV.

“As regards to being a practicing Christian, I’m sure you are in the same sense that Bill Clinton is or Ted Kennedy was…Andrew Cuomo claims to be a Roman Catholic as he wakes up every morning with his whore.”

^ Ooooh, I forgot, your denomination must be the one with the only *real* Christians. My bad.

Hope you don’t eat any shrimp or wear polyester, you cute little hellraiser you.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
@ JN – you know what really should irritate you, JN? The fact that all of us sinners are down here beneath your soapbox on high are practicing our “Free-Will” and enjoying life as you struggle to cope with your life of righteousness while blaming everyone for the declination of man. Meanwhile you’re clicking on porn links in your favorite whacking chair with a bottle of jergens trying to fill up your 100 terabyte hard-drive with lesbians and two guys one girl action for your upcoming deployment.

@Hunterplt23 – RTFM, or if you’re one of those video game dudes, Read the Quest Text, Noob. We’ve covered that already.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
“Riiiiight…and by extension Roman Catholics are bigots, Greek Orthodox are bigots, Orthodox Jews are bigots, Southern Baptists are bigots, etc.”

^ Only the ones like you.

“Thanks for making my case. What denomination are you by the way, that celebrates degeneracy?”

Well I’m a recovering Southern Baptist, but I attend a Unitarian Universalist church now. Because I like kumbayah better than fire-and-brimstone, I’m not going to lie.

And by the way, you foaming at the mouth about “degenerates” doesn’t really help your case, Warren. It just makes you look cray cray.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
What, once again no answer? C’mon, you ought to be proud of your denomination, so enlightened I’m sure? UCC perhaps? How about UU? Swedenborgians are enlightened I think.

And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force? This helps readiness how? What if they contract HIV after they complete training.

Do tell us wise one.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:08 pm
come to think of it, in all my years of being a lez I have never met any gay person with aids either, I do however know a straight girl with HIV and she caught it from a straight guy. and i wasnt scared to let her rent a room from me for a while fearing I might catch the AIDS from her damn straight sexing around
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:09 pm
“And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force? This helps readiness how? What if they contract HIV after they complete training.”

^Population control? Maybe one of them will sneeze on you.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
“Maverick you’ve got to be the funniest damn lez bean I’ve ever interacted with. Also the first. But don’t let that make you feel there’s nothing to compare it to. Even though there isn’t. But still…”

^ I seriously doubt I’m the first lesbian you’ve ever interacted with (we’re eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverywhereeeeee) but thanks all the same.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
Ahhhh, only some Catholics are bad, some Mormorns, some Baptists? I’m guessing that only the ones that believe in their faith and don’t want their children taught that wrong is right are the bigots.?

Would Billy Graham qualify as a bigot? How about John Paul II?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:11 pm
“And why is it again that we need a subset of the population 50 times more likely to be HIV positive and not know it included in the force?”

^ Because we’re losing two wars?

I think it’s a pretty obvious fucking answer. If people want to volunteer to be meatshields, who the hell are YOU to stand in their way?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
“Ahhhh, only some Catholics are bad, some Mormorns, some Baptists? I’m guessing that only the ones that believe in their faith and don’t want their children taught that wrong is right are the bigots.?”

You fundamentalist Christians can teach your spawn whatever you want, as long as you don’t push their beliefs on others who do not share them.

Like I said, it’s a free fucking country.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
In part because of the gays and lesbians who fight for your right to a bigot.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
“Population control? Maybe one of them will sneeze on you.”

…and maybe one of them will end up donating blood and a Marine or Soldier (or a family member) will end up getting HIV. Of course, this is the price we have to pay for an enlightened force, right?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
“…and maybe one of them will end up donating blood and a Marine or Soldier (or a family member) will end up getting HIV. Of course, this is the price we have to pay for an enlightened force, right?”

^ You don’t think gays don’t donate blood NOW? All they do is ask you, “Have you had homosexual relations in the last six months?” or some bullshit like that. It’s not like they give you a lie detector test or anything.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Well, that’s what your elected leaders want. You want to change it? Run for office.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
I’m sure you’ll get lots of votes running the “my religion can kick your dads ass” campaign.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
“Well, that’s what your elected leaders want. You want to change it? Run for office.”

^ And it’s what the American people overwhelmingly want to.

So I don’t know what to tell you except, “Suck it up (no homo).”
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
*too
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
Is the Pope a fundamentalist? Patriarch Kirill? Thomas Monson?
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
I’m not Catholic, so I don’t give a bear shit in the woods about the Pope. And I have no idea who those other two people are, so I can safely say I don’t give a bear shit in the woods about *them*, either.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
low income heterosexual young adult males are also a high risk group and doesnt that make up a lot of the enlisted population? Should we exclude them from fighting?
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
@ JN – are you a chaplain? You sure do know a lot about your religion.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
Why do I get the feeling JN is giving us a list of the photos he jacks off to before he goes to sleep at night?
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
i don’t know about you but I’ve been fascinated lately with the history of the vatican and the different empires of those times and some of those popes were some damn naughty freaks
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
“oOOooooo, Billy, take it!”
mstersmith Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Maverick is going to be the first douche we bounce out for being a loud mouth jack ass.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
@ maerick omg take that thought back from my head I dont want that image
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Well, the funny thing about Jesus Freaks is that they will die trying to convert us “sinners” to righteousness. I’m not even gay and this guy has me rooting for the gays now. Thanks JN… now I’m a sympathizer.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Mstersmith – OH, so it’s okay for YOU GUYS to make gay jokes about vaseline and gerbils and whatnot, but I can’t? Figures.

Straight guys take the fun out of EVERYTHING.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
I never talked to her before today and I have found her witty, intelligent and funny and proud to be in the military and proud to get some well deserved rights to not hide in the closet anymore
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
” You don’t think gays don’t donate blood NOW?”

Thanks for making my point. They’re not supposed to are they…ever? It’s the policy for the Red Cross and the bottom line is that it endagers the blood supply.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
equal opprtunity jokesters here. its only funny if ya make fun of them all
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
“Well, the funny thing about Jesus Freaks is that they will die trying to convert us “sinners” to righteousness. I’m not even gay and this guy has me rooting for the gays now. Thanks JN… now I’m a sympathizer.”

^ This is why I just let the holy rollers run their mouths. They bring more people over to the cause than I *ever* could, just because people don’t want to be associated with people who act like self-righteous asshats.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Okay, my previous comments about JN making sweet, sweet hand-love to photographs of Emperor Ratzinger were completely out of line. I sincerely apologize to any and all Catholics who may have been offended.

Excuse me while I go put a nail through my palm to drive the image from my dirty degenerate mind.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:35 pm
“Thanks for making my point. They’re not supposed to are they…ever? It’s the policy for the Red Cross and the bottom line is that it endagers the blood supply.”

My point being, they obviously don’t endanger the blood supply THAT much, or the Red Cross would require all people to have a blood-based STD test before qualifying as a donor. *shrug*
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Oh Maverick, I’m sure you’ll be shutting down all the “Holy Rollers” as soon as you get the chance.

But the problem is that regardless of how much you crow and insist on regulations, there will still be a majority within the community that regard your behavior as degenerate. Should those folks leave the service? Guys like Carl Mundy or Charles Krulak?

Should the grandchildren of traditional folks be taught that “Butch” Maverick and her “partner” are the same as their mother and father?
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
@ mstersmith – I think the first douches you should bounce out are your fucking malingerers, fat-bodies, and Corps haters… you know, LCpl Dickface who’s been in the Corps for what, 10 minutes and hates it. So he drives around in his brand new car or truck that the Corps bought him without having to worry about layoffs or getting fired for the next 3.5 years at least with a fucking EAS sticker on the back window?

Why don’t you worry about the real problem in the Corps? Worry about pussy SNCO’s who would rather be a PFC/LCpl’s best friend than lay the smack down then blame jr SNCOs / NCOs for not doing their jobs?

Worry about the damned Colonels who are in charge of a base/unit who get busted for a DUI/DWI and instead of getting hammered like a junior Marine would, he gets a slap on the wrist and continues to draw his $10,000/month paycheck.

Worry about the SNCOs that stand out in front of a fucking formation for 30 minutes preaching safety rules get busted speeding on base but don’t even get as much as an adverse fitrep.

Instead of worrying about cocky Marines who want to serve the country and Corps who happen to take a dick to the face, why don’t you help address the current real problems that you can change? Enforce a dress code or grooming standard for starters.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
“Emperor Ratzinger” …ahh, a little veiled anti-Catholicism, there we are. Don’t you feel better now that you have let it out.

Now how about a slur against the evil Mormons or Baptists?
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
even porn stars take that STD test now that gives you an almost immediate result. They are more concerned with the possibility of spreading that HIV through the porn community the the red cross is with transfusions
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
“But the problem is that regardless of how much you crow and insist on regulations, there will still be a majority within the community that regard your behavior as degenerate. Should those folks leave the service? Guys like Carl Mundy or Charles Krulak?”

^ They can leave if they feel that strongly about fighting side by side with me. If they do, then good riddance to bad rubbish. If you’re *that* afraid of being tainted by homosexuals just by being in proximity to them, not only do you probably have some kind of repressed latent homosexuality that is damaging you in a psychologically unhealthy way, you’re a coward. So I’ll tell you what I’d tell any coward – if you’re that butthurt about it, get the hell out of my Marines.

“Should the grandchildren of traditional folks be taught that “Butch” Maverick and her “partner” are the same as their mother and father?”

^ Like I said, you can teach your rugrats whatever you want, and I’ll teach mine. But I’m also making sure mine has a black belt. So the first time your kid tries to pick a fight with mine about his/her “bull dyke” mommy, my kid is going to have prior permission to put yours in the dirt.

‘Cause Mama didn’t raise no sissies.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
And it’s interesting that you identify me as butch. Do I have a masculine writing style or something? For all you know, I’m a lipstick lesbian.

““Emperor Ratzinger” …ahh, a little veiled anti-Catholicism, there we are. Don’t you feel better now that you have let it out.”

^ Actually I’m just a Star Wars nerd.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:42 pm
“Instead of worrying about cocky Marines who want to serve the country and Corps who happen to take a dick to the face, why don’t you help address the current real problems that you can change? Enforce a dress code or grooming standard for starters.”

^ Hell yeah, man. Couldn’t have said it better myself. *thumbs up*
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
mormon chicks are hot and baptist girls are easy and everyone knows catholic girls are freaks in the bed
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Nah…I’ll hang on to the Mundys and Krulaks of the USMC and I’ll let you go. Don’t be surprised if you get a “Reagan Executive Order” moment from President Perry. I’m sure you’re old enough to remember President Reagan’s “We Ask, Don’t Join” policy?

A great policy from a great president.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
Actually, I’m not old enough to remember Reagan at all, I’m 26.

(Old people are so cute!)
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
He was a great acto, he worked with Monkeys
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
actor*
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
he paved the way for Arnold in Cali who has done a bang up job
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
REAGAN SMASH!
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
@ Maverick – you want to see him get really pissed? Tell him that Carter was a better president in his sleep.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
his wife started that great DARE program that really helped the war on Drugs. We fought that war with such success.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
Jimmy Carter? Dude, I’m from Alabama. That’s not a name here, that’s a swear.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
hey he won the nobel peace prize didnt he?
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
“even porn stars take that STD test now that gives you an almost immediate result”

There we are, the pornographic industry as a benchmark for the military blood supply.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Oh, and by the way, I am a butch. Just for the record.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
So good gaydar, JN!
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
@wth – so did Obama… what’s the point? Plus, Carter didn’t win it until 2002 when he wasn’t in charge of a Country.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
“There we are, the pornographic industry as a benchmark for the military blood supply.”

Actually, the professional pornographic and prostitutional industries set the bar for safety against sexually transmitted diseases. They’re actually a lot better about practicing safe sex than…well, everybody else.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Actually, from your tone it seemed obvious. It’s folks like you that make me sure the U.S. would benefit from resuming conscription, but that is another debate.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
hey it makes ya stop and think that those sinners committing all those sex for hire acts are very proactive in stayong healthy long enough to sin another day
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
“Actually, from your tone it seemed obvious. It’s folks like you that make me sure the U.S. would benefit from resuming conscription, but that is another debate.”

^ Folks like me huh…wow, you would *totally* fit in in Alabama!

But pray tell, what do butch lesbians have to do with conscription? Enquiring minds want to know.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
eh I’m not old enough to know much about Jimmys presidency just that he is considered one of the most successful ex presidents and most people that like Reagan hated Carter. And he liked peanuts.
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
I think I totally fit within my demographic group princess, I know I do as a matter of fact. If you’re interested in the subject read about Pew Political Typology; there is plenty about demographics you probably don’t know.

As regards conscription, the military would benefit with it (in my opinion) because it would allow the military to improve the quality of recruit that they are getting.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
and he had that whole hostage thing going on when i was a lil one and he is considered to be a president who didnt accomplish much as president
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
JN – So let me get this straight – you are saying that you feel all homosexuals are inferior soldiers based on their sexual orientation, rather than their merit?

Good luck selling that to the Myspace set.

And what’s with this “princess” nonsense? Are you trying to make some kind of point? Trying to emasculate me and put me in my place or something?

Lame. (And sexist. But mostly lame.)
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
I’ll give it to you though. For the Pope jokes.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
how so because it will force people who dont want to fight to figh instead of the ones that want to live and breathe that kind of life and we should be thanking them decide to enlist
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
I actually support conscription as well, just because I think that all young men and women can benefit from the military.

Gay or straight.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
However, I think people in a free country should have the option to be a pacifist (or apathetic to military affairs) if they so choose.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
thanking them for deciding to enlist* damn too tired
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
I actually think that those who don’t want to be conscripted as soldiers should be conscripted to the Peace Corps.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
I can see how the military can benefit all young men and woman but yes people should have a choice to be apathetic
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
hmm, i never thought of that, that is a good theory
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
No Maverick, because I don’t think that the romantic element adds to the combat team, it detracts.

As regards the “MySpace” generation, I am concerned what will happen when the military faces a Pusan Perimeter, a Tet Offensive or an Anzio. I think there is a decent possibility that our forces could fold, especially when you get past the combat arms.

People enlist for many reasons, and the military has reduced standards across the board to meet recruiting goals. If somebody really doesn’t want to serve they won’t regardless of their status as draftees or volunteers.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
ok im gonna go watch private benjamin now much funnier then saving private ryan. Or maybe stripes.

However I salute all who serve this country for all you do, male, female, gay, straight, white, yellow etc etc, Christian, agnostic, Buddhist, etc, etc. and you lifers bleed patriotism regardless if we are at war, at peace, losing a war, winning. Whether its a just war or unjust war. You all are there to get your job done. and for a lifer who is proud to serve but happens to be gay, i think they shouldn’t be forced to chose being with the person they love and sharing a life with them or working/fighting in the job they love
JNWarren Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
“ok im gonna go watch private benjamin now much funnier then saving private ryan. Or maybe stripes. ”

You might want to watch something on the Korean War; you might be facing something similar soon.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
that said the cover of that magazine is kinda gay
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:44 pm
Yeah, it’s totally gay.
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
Homosexuals are gay.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
I mean, pink? Jeez, way to stereotype.
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
cant i just watch team America world police its got the korean dude and fags working together
wth Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
oh ya homosexuals are gay then what was all the fuss? but seriously all you Marines have my support no matter who you love. Mary a goat IDC
Marine Corps Times Insults the Corps « The Patriot Perspective Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
[...] Oh, yeah, and, a week after September 11, the Marine Corps Times going “we’re gay”. [...]
Unimpressed Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
In more important news, Opeth will overshadow gay independence day by releasing yet another album on the 20th.
Maverick Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
That “Patriot Perspective” article is ridiculous.

I seriously don’t understand people trying to keep gays and lesbians out of the armed forces. It boggles my mind.

From PP, about gays and lesbians being able to bring same-sex partners to the Birthday Ball:

“That’s gay. That’s oppressively gay. That’s totalitarian speech codes gay. That’s “gays will get better treatment” gay. That’s insulting military and martial traditions gay. That’s gay.”

^ How the hell is being able to bring a same-sex partner to a military ball getting “better treatment” than someone who brings an opposite-sex partner? Both people are getting the equal right to choose anyone they’d like as a date.

Yeah, *we’re* the ones being totalitarians.

Right.
Crusty_11b20 Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
Hey, all you haters out there, Don’t you have something better to do, like, I don’t know….get an education? 1 Homosexual Marine, Troop, Sailor, or Airman is better than 10 hoodrats who think you owe them respect because they came from the “streets”. And for those of you complaining about homosexuals not being covered under EO and not getting the same benefits as married couples…The military follows Federal Law, and until Federal Law recognizes homosexuals under EO and the Law that covers marriage, the military will not recognize you. Don’t be mad at the military, complain to congress and get them to make the necessary changes so that you can get what’s owed to you.
sarah Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:19 am
sad thing is our us marines are seeing this and wanting to quite bcuz the dont ask dont tell policy, which is really sad some had bright futures in their life with the marine corps and wanted to make this their career until this was seen. I honestly dont think they shouldve made this a magazine cover or say anything about this policy the gays can join the marines, thats fine and dandy, but dont share this with everyone…i can see where this is coming an isue for the ones serving now as far as all this goes. but to make this a cover was a little extavagent and shouldnt have been done like this…someone really didnt think this through. this whole sexuality thing shouldnt be brought up in a line of duty such as this.
Kyle Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:25 am
What the hell happened to the funny comments? I think that JW shit on our semi gay semi not gay parade. tisk tisk. SO we repeal DADT and the gays are in, awesome. Now lets get to pressing matters like letting Marines get full sleeves again or at least we go back to the jokes.
crusty_11b20 Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:27 am
Sarah, I agree the whole ‘in your face’ thing is stupid, but to hide the fact that the services no longer discriminate against one class of citizen would indicate shame. There is nothing shameful in a homosexual serving their country. They can be just as patriotic and capable as the next person. What is shameful is that individuals can be so shallow as to throw away their career because someone in their platoon is gay. If you can’t focus on your mission because you’re thinking about what someone is doing in their bedroom instead, then you don’t belong in the military. If you’re worried about someone harassing you or assaulting you, there has been a policy in effect already to deal with that. The reality is, 99.99999% of the homosexuals that serve, or will serve, don’t want to sleep with their squadmates, and aren’t going to undress you with their eyes. Serve your damned country, not your ignorance.
crusty_11b20 Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:29 am
@Kyle, I agree…..I would think our retirement getting canned would be more important and get people a lil more heated than this.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:12 am
I’ve read through all the comments posted. Interesting. Having been out of the service since the tail end of 2008 here is my take:

First, While DaDT forced thousands of people to lie about their orientation, it is now gone. Bravo Zulu Servicemen and Women no longer have to lie. Hence “I will not lie, cheat, or steal; nor tolerate anyone that does” can now focus on what it should. Integrity, Duty, Honor, Valor, and above all Unit cohesiveness.

Since DaDT is now a moot issue, NJP’s, Courts Martials; general, special, or otherwise can be utilized for better purposes. This will save time and money for both the Department of the Navy and the Corps.

Second: whether or not a member of the Armed Forces is “Gay” or a “Homosexual” is a moot point. Personal conduct within the Corps both here at home and down range will not change. There is a reason why the Corps is the finest fighting force around the Globe. The enemy still doesn’t care about an individual Enlisted or Marine Corps Officer’s sexual orientation.

OPSEC is still OPSEC regardless of a whether or not the radio operator is gay or not.

As for individual Marines choices to stay or quit over this issue. Hmm. Seems to me that the EGA is still what it is and always shall be. Not everyone can be a Marine, and not everyone should. In the end the Corps shall continue to be defined by the men and women who choose to carry on the tradition of our forefathers. In the end the Marine Corps shall still be the Marine Corps.

Now with regard to those of you who hold personal opinions about how the repeal of DaDT is going to adversely affect the Corps. I have but this to say.

Your opinion is your opinion. However, If you currently hold a billet in the United States Marine Corps; and choose to publicly display your opinion which may shine a distasteful light upon this subject remember one thing. Your conduct as a Marine Corps NCO, Staff NCO, or Officer should remain as such. It is up to you who are still in the service to be and example and set the example of the principles of leadership.

With that said, lets get back to what is important. Like another cup of coffee, or a serious conversation.
Peter Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:36 am
Hey not all of the Marine Corps, is gay….I mean come on, that is between you and God…..But don’t say that to me, this is totally disgusting, I am outraged……that is between you and God, and you will have to answer him….but keep that to yourself, thank you.
Peter Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:48 am
Hey I had to earn my Eagle Globe, and Anchor…..through MCRD San Diego, still I have to prove that I am in the Marine Corps, still as a God fearing Marine, you being “gay”, is between you and the Almighty God, not me…..so respect my opinions as a human being, but someone telling others that he/she is “gay”, is not needed….for the love of God keep that to yourself….not everyone wants to hear that….I mean come on…..do you have to put that type of information out there..?
GrumpyVet Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:38 am
@Peter.

I agree with you Peter. Each Marine has had to earn his or her own EGA. Not an easy accomplishment; and one that every member of the Corps can be proud of.

A person’s sexual orientation should stay a part of their private life. I don’t care whether they are straight or gay. That particular line item should be kept at home. The only thing a Marine should bring to his or her job is the ability to do said job.

The only thing I cared about when I was in; was the ability of each Marine in the squad (from the squad leader down to the SAW operator) to do their job.

Knowing your job and the job of the Marine next to you is more important than knowing their sexual orientation.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:36 am
Holy Shit – did you all sleep last night? I see how it is, leave the fat out of the fun and pick him for dodge ball (no pun) just as a humor factor. I hit the rack at 2130 with like 183 post. This is awesome. See, we’re joking and laughing and still getting our points across. I agree with a previous post – if someone cannot change (and we all) as you have see from the begginng of this, and they choose to get out – fine. Good luck with the job hunting. But on a serious note – @ stoolpushr – I’m with you brother, I’m recycling and using those dildo jokes, oh and that fish one of yours. I say we just go start drinking, sing the hyme and get twisted out of the frame (easy) drunk. So what its only 0630. This goes into effect sat, lets kick this movement now. Its good. We got questions and concerns that will be answered. Lastyly at this point…, I think it was Crusty who made the outstanding point of this being bootstrapped to Not lieing, cheating stealing, etc. Good point Crusty. Alright – now where are the friggen jokes, unimpressed, stoolpushr and wth?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:47 am
@ Kyle and Crusty. Gents this topic and our retirements are equally important. While this one is on the front burner, you can be rest assured the other is of equal imprtance to all. As you both have said, we all earned the title. We joke about which is harder San Diego or Gilligan’s Island, I mean PI (two tours in the grid) I’ll take SD – but in the end we are all Marines with a job to do. yes, a person’s sexual orientation should be kept private. This factor just lets them serve openly. A few posts ago, someone said that this will be a non issue in a few years. The hard thing to swallow if the change factor, not that anyone is gay. B/c we as service men and women hate change, its human nature. But change was made by President Truman or Eisenhower for integration of the service, Dr. King added his thoughts in, and now we are here. Bottom line, if they can carry their load, set up aiming stakes, bubble a mortar, lead a squad (absent garrison or combat and regardless of MOS and Gender) run with the ball. Most of us in the beginning have had greater concerns than we have now 300 postings later. I think it is the Ethos and love for our organizations, that come up front and push our differences aside. My dad, who was an 0351 in Vietnam has told me from day one, take care of your Marines and your Corpsman. Do your job to the best of your ability, and take corrective action and help others absent race, color creed, gender, and now sexual orientation. I think that last part is the most valid point given that their are 58k reasons why we do what we do and should allow the same to all.

Now where are my damn jokes stoolpushr!?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:24 am
“But don’t say that to me, this is totally disgusting, I am outraged……that is between you and God, and you will have to answer him….but keep that to yourself, thank you.”

^ I love how it takes a pink magazine cover to outrage you, and it took two hundred and thirty six years for us to get outraged enough to make it an issue in the first place.

And you say *we’re* the pansies.

C’mon, brothers. That’s just gay. And not the cool gay, the stupid one.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:57 am
Fred – As far as gay guys being “the right type” to be soldiers, I’ll tell you to do a social experiment. A simple observation.

Pull up some pictures of gay pride and take a hard look. Not at all the Mardi Gras party bullshit, at the actual young men just walking around and dancing around in their underwear on the floats.

Keep in mind these guys – who dance in their underwear once a year to represent their lack of shame at openly being who they are – go back to being regular people the rest of the year. Many of them are disciplined, high performers at their jobs, and most of them have something to prove to somebody. Pride parades are political activism, and activism signifies someone who wants to be considered equal, someone who feels that they have something to offer society and wants the chance to prove it.

Yes, I’m sure there’s a couple of strippers in the mix, but we have our share of doctors and lawyers and hot nerdy computer science queers as well. And we have more than our share of university students, because gay guys are some of the best college performers statistically. So it’s not just all witty banter, a lot of them are actually really intelligent, which is why they end up in the top tiers of privatized business.

But just as importantly, look at them. It’s a bunch of *hardbodies*. People who are built like a brick shithouse, more or less. Tell me we don’t need more people who already have a dedicated gym schedule and washboard abs in the forces.

There is nothing about the average gay or lesbian that doesn’t make them unfit for the service, except for the fact that many of them have no interest in it because the military has told them in no uncertain terms that it doesn’t want them.

Nevermind the fact that gays and lesbians form one of the cornerstones of Western society (you know Greeks and all their crazy homo-love were the ones who started this whole civilization in the first place) and have a rich and colorful military history that goes back farther than any other American soldier. Forget all that, they’re queer, we don’t want ‘em!!!

I can see smoking coming out of your ears already, so I’m going to preemptively strike your “OH NOES THE DRAG QUEENS!” outraged response.

Q: But Maverick, why do the queers have to dress up like drag queens at pride parades?

A: To celebrate that it was drag queens and butch women who started the gay rights movement in the first place, in response to years of police persecution and brutality.

In the 50s and 60s, it was illegal for a woman to have less than three pieces of women’s clothing on. If she didn’t – that is, if she was completely in drag – she would be beaten, possibly gang-raped (it was not an uncommon occurence by any stretch), and sent to jail. Vice versa for a man. Ask yourselves – would you support such a law today?

If the answer is yes, consider how different (or not) that stance is from the stance of the Taliban, who also employ “morality police” to enforce theocratic law against men and women.

Disagree with the lifestyle? Don’t like the behavior you THINK is typical in gays and lesbians (it’s not, by the way)? Then allow it to change. Allow gays and lesbians to serve honestly. Show gay youth that there is more to life than clubs and liberal activism.

Let them serve a higher purpose.
Peter Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:12 am
To Maverick, hey that is what I think, and hey you know that I can voice my own opinion thank you very much. And guess what your going to have to answer to God sooner or later, sorry it’s the way that it is….
Unimpressed Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:18 am
@MSgt, USMC (Ret.)

…you asked for it, but you said it better than we can…

“hard thing to swallow”
“carry their load”
“come up front”

That’s what she said, that’s what she said, that’s what she said!
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:27 am
@ unimpressed – it will all work out in the end. We all have our opinions and eventually, we come to a collective agreement. Now where are the jokes!
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:44 am
“To Maverick, hey that is what I think, and hey you know that I can voice my own opinion thank you very much. And guess what your going to have to answer to God sooner or later, sorry it’s the way that it is….”

^ Hey, you’re welcome to your opinion. I will defend to the death your right to that opinion. But that doesn’t mean I can’t have something to say about it. I don’t have to “live and let live” while other people are forcing their religion on me WHEN I AM IN THE SAME DAMNED RELIGION.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s. This is not a Judeo-Christian theocracy, this is the United States of America. And not everyone believes in your God, and amongst those who do, not everyone believes what you do.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:50 am
@peter

Yes, we’ve gathered you are capable of an opinion. But this whole “answer to God sooner or later” bit… Nice touch. right on par with the Westbourough nutjobs. Quite frankly I’m tired of people bringing their religious views into this and any other argument.

“God” isn’t going to carry your combat load for you; nor is he going to come down and stop a stray round down range.

But if you think he will, please by all means invite him to the party. We’ll save an MRE and a bottle of water for him. Don’t forget the gold plated keys for the Humvee and the “R&R” leave chit now available at the BAS along with the brass balls every boot seems to have dropped.

But seriously, Formation will be held at 0315 Sunday for all who would like to join the God-Squad. I hear Wagner (a port-a-John artist) will be appointed the new squad leader along with a troop of Drag queens and nellies to form a new fire team after the pink police call.

Like MSgt said, it WILL all work out in the end. If you don’t believe him feel free to ask any of us disabled vets. I’m still ticked off over the horrible VA coffee.
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:59 am
@ GrumpyVet – hell yeah brother. VA Coffee and SUCKS! God will help you mentally carry your load – but you are the one carrying it, and your brother and sister loads to if they go down. This is, as I said before will work out in the end. We need to get the important issues with this, the economy, our retirements, the nation’s security, etc all on the table – chop it up into an organized mess – and get after it. Solve it and take care of those who have taken care of us and allowed us to be where we are. I know that I have my opinions just like any one else. But a closed mind solves nonthing. Throughout all of these postings you can see how people’s views and opinions changed as the conversation went on. That is called progress.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:16 am
@MSgt

BZ on the “Mentally carry your load” part. Unfortunately the reality of what is actually important will not set in for many young Marines for many years. That is as they say “just the way things are”.

A 5 paragraph order (as much as I hated those things) is important.

The welfare of each individual Marine in a the Company, Platoon, squad, and fire team is important.

Helping fellow Marines and Docs do well, learn their job, advance in paygrade, and stay out of harms way off duty IS important.

Getting your ducks in a row before Retirement, and or when you are getting out of the service VERY important.

Helping a fellow combat veteran figure out how things work at the VA, getting to all appointments, and being there to just listen EXTREMELY important.

Sitting at a computer lamenting over the repeal: NOT IMPORTANT.

Then again, those of us who are not in the service any longer know absolutely nothing at all. After all, what could we know? lol

Open minds change the world around you; closed minds extinguish the torch of inspiration and the opportunites waiting beyond the horizon. The hall mark of a good leader is the ability to listen first and act after all the details of a SITREP have been assessed. A good leader does this not because it is easy; but because it is in the best interest of the men he leads.

This is also another form of progress.
Unimpressed Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:22 am
@MSgt, USMC (Ret.) – “Now where are the jokes!”

^I thought my post WAS the joke… See #328
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:26 am
Q: What you do call a room full of 50 politicians and 50 lesbians?
A: 100 people who don’t do dick!
SSgt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:30 am
It’s unfortunate that some think homosexuality will taken into consideration for promotion. In reality those who say this might happen are oblivious to the promotion process. First, because this information isn’t on master brief sheets or fitness reports. Second, promotion boards are held in confidence and one can only speculate why they were passed over. I remember this from when I was still an NCO and Marines thought they were beat on a board just because they were competing against a female. NO, dumbass its because they were $hit hot and you weren’t. Marines, get over the fact that you don’t like this change. Since when did we have the right to question our superiors orders and guidance?

“That’s gay”- A lot of complaining has been going on about not being able to say this phrase? God forbid we should have to be more professional.

Crybabies quit crying, accept this change, and on the Corps shall strive and flourish.

“Semper Fidelis” <<<<<<<<<<<<< Do you remember what that means?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:37 am
‘“That’s gay”- A lot of complaining has been going on about not being able to say this phrase? God forbid we should have to be more professional.’

^ I agree. I said this same phrase mockingly earlier, but the truth is that this kind of talk makes ALL Marines look like they have the mentality of fourth graders.

The civvies get nervous when they see people with the mentality of fourth graders carrying assault rifles.

We should all aspire to a level of dignity (and good-natured humor) that reflects well on the American military as a whole.

I think that gay people are just as likely to say “That’s gay” as straight people are. As some people in this thread have pointed out, it’s usually not used in the context of homosexuality at all. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t still a lazy and inaccurate descriptor though, usually used by someone who is whining about something.
SSgt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:40 am
Agreed
Joe Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:45 am
All you religious BIGOTS get the the hella out of my Corps and go join Westboro’s cult of hatred. They would love to have some more self-despising closet cases. You are the real danger to cohesion!!
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:03 am
when people say that’s gay i simply say ha really seemed kinda straight to me and then when something really brillent happens I say now that’s gay
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Whenever someone says, “That’s gay,” with any tone of whining disgust, I usually reply, “Yeah, I think it’s pretty cool too.” =)
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:34 am
id really love to hear more about people being so upset on this page but damn I wasted a lot of work time yesterday. I will however come back and check the jokes out, but hey not just gay ones, lets see some equal opportunity jokes. Right, left, marine, civilian, gay, straight.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:42 am
Q: What do you get when you cross a straight man and a straight woman?
A: Three kids, a mistress and two divorce lawyers!

Defending the institution of marriage, indeed. Lmao.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:44 am
hey i was thinking, they shouldnt be worried about lesbians bringing another chick back to the barracks, its not like they have access to uhauls out there?
Tankman Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:13 am
Man, its shit like this that makes me wish the Nazis won.

Alright, jokes aside, here is my 2 cents as a straight white male in the Army:

Equal Opportunity – everyone has the equal opportunity to be offended by me. You don’t like it, change the Constitution. By serving, I give up parts of my rights and watch as Congress and Liberals degrade my original benefits package.

Minority rights engenders bias against whites.
Women rights engenders bias against men.
Gay rights engenders bias against straights.

Anyone who shows any dissent against these ‘rights’ is a target for ridicule and called an oppressor. Screw that noise.

As for the cover, yeah I laughed. I even shared the pic with my lesbian friend. Personally, I thought the cover was more about the need to quit bitching about it. Its done and all we can do is take a knee, drink water, and move out.

With the repeal of DADT I thought up a new Slogan for the Army: There is Gay and then there is Army Gay. Can you take it?

My personal views: I have no issues with lesbians but I object to gay men. Not because of the acts themselves, women do those too, but because the conduct is unmasculine. I suppose that makes me hypocritical, get over it. Overall though, I support homosexuality because I believe in population control and natural selection. I am uncertain if they should retain custody of children due to the prevalence of preconditioning.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:23 am
very strange, my parents were straight and I am a lesbian. I happen to have a son because some straight white male thought the lesbian needed to be schooled on that a real man could change her. Ya horrible ordeal but long time ago and my son is turning 16 and very straight, even a sports nut and i dont know a thing about sports but he chose to watch sports since he was like 3 all on his own. preconditioning my ass.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:29 am
“I have no issues with lesbians but I object to gay men. Not because of the acts themselves, women do those too, but because the conduct is unmasculine.”

So you’re a misogynist then? What’s wrong with feminine conduct? Plenty of military women are able to be feminine and still be damned good soldiers. What does it matter what the plumbing is if the behavior itself is unobjectionable?

I think you just don’t like to see feminity expressed openly by another man, because it means all of the male mantras – stoic silence, invincibility, toughness, calm, etc… – are really unnecessary standards that men hold themselves to.

“Equal Opportunity – everyone has the equal opportunity to be offended by me. You don’t like it, change the Constitution. By serving, I give up parts of my rights and watch as Congress and Liberals degrade my original benefits package.”

^ Funny, your argument is the exact same argument used by the gay rights movement, except replace “liberals” with “fundamentalist conservatives”.

Otherwise, the sentiment is identical.

So whose rights win out? My right to be treated like a human being, or your right to curb-check me, like what happened to this poor bastard a few weeks back: http://www.homorazzi.com/article/dane-hall-curb-stomped-salt-lake-city-club-sound-gay-bashing-fox-13-news-report-broken-jaw/

We need protection from shit like this. Nobody else goes out on a Saturday night and has to worry about somebody murdering them on the way home.

Why should we?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:35 am
By the way, there have been what would be considered some pretty offensive remarks on this forum, and I don’t see a single queer jumping up in arms about it. All and all, most of us are able to have a pretty good sense of humor about it.

We’re tough. We can take shit. And we’re increasing able to dish it back out.

I do not expect any of this PC Powerpoint bullshit to end up in actual foxholes, where I can’t imagine that any of this stuff would matter at all. Doubt it would come up in a combat situation, if you know what I mean.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:39 am
*ly
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:45 am
i dont pretend to know what goes on out there in ur semper fi world, but in reading these posts i get you all are strong marines, however the wit and intelligence that I see in people like mav and unimpressed and MSgt, USMC (Ret.) makes me feel secure that they can handle challenging situations with their strength and minds and that makes me feel far more secure.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Looks like a happy ending for all involved.

See what I did there?
Former Non-Gay Grunt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
This cover is so inciting. 350 comments?

I have to add my two cents. I’m OK with hot lesbians.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
Even if you’re not invited?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:06 pm
It kills me how many straight guys are accepting of lesbians as pornographic sexual objects, but act like women jumping up on a chair over a house mouse when they are forced to acknowledge gay men.

You can unclench your cheeks now men. The overwhelming majority of gay men only want to sleep with other gay men.

Your ass in the clear…literally.
barich Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
The headline certainly is an attention grabber. More interesting than the article, however, are the comments, from all parts of the spectrum. I had to laugh at the one who said something to the effect of “this headline makes it look like all marines are gay” and that made me think about the assumptions made about sexual orientation, and how this puts the shoe onto the other foot a bit. Instead of assuming all marines are straight some will assume they are all gay. Pretty funny. Personally I have known gay and straight marines.
Peter J Conway Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
My father was a Marine. I was a Marine. My son is a Marine. We voted with our lives for this organization. Give us a say as to it’s future. Today’s commanders have the responsibility to keep the USMC the institution that it has always been. Obama should have to pin generals stars on guys standing on yellow footprints. My USMC is a museum piece.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 2:59 pm
^ And what about gay and lesbian Marines…do they not get a say in the future of the Corps as well? Have they not paid enough sweat and blood to have a say?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
For those who are concerned about serving next to people you view as living “immoral lifestyles”…I’d be willing to bet my whole paycheck not a single damned one of you has ever complained about the “lifestyles” of the hundreds of people who are enlisted every year under felony waivers.

So you don’t mind serving with convicted felons, but you don’t want to serve with a guy who is a stellar Marine and just happens to be a little light in the loafers?

Which demographic do you think is *really* more likely to sexually assault you?
Unimpressed Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
“Man, its shit like this that makes me wish the Nazis won.”

^Not even funny. Keep that shit in your head, Aryan.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Ssgt, you didn’t know that the military HAS had racial and sex preferences recently? Did you know that the military basically discriminates against white male applicants to Annapolis or West Point? Google up Lamberth Decision Military Discrimination if you want to read up on the issue.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
hey it aint rape if you yell surprise! -ha see I can even laugh at a joke like that, ya its wrong but its still funnnny.

The funny thing to me is many keep saying we already know who you are and that your there and have been there, so I dont get that just the fact they can say oh ya ur right I am gay makes you fear more about your shower time?
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Sitting at a computer lamenting over the repeal: NOT IMPORTANT.

Eh, Grumpy Vet…

Eh, writing checks and supporting decent candidates (just as I’m sure you did in 76 & 80 for Governor Reagan) is also important.

Finding productive employment (nongovernmental I’d hope) is important.

Electing a guy who’ll have the fortitude to do right by the military and America, that’s important.

…then again, Reagan was a religious guy so you probably voted for the opposition?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
JN – Why does it not surprise me in the slightest to see you pipe up with some reverse discrimination nonsense that doesn’t even concern DADT repeal?

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
As an aside, since we’re all in for eliminating all forms of discrimination, will the services be dropping their lower standards for height, weight and physical fitness currently applied to females?
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Maverick….because it was brought in the thread. It sounded as though folks were saying it never occured. It certainly did, and still does.

You don’t want this type of discrimination, right?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
Straw man arguments are the last refuge of a scoundrel.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Now I am going to go watch GI Jane
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
For the record, the physical requirements for women are different than those for men because women are physiologically different than men.

I say drop the difference in physical requirements as soon as women are allowed in open combat units, right alongside the men.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Well since the Pusan Perimeter has shown everyone has to have that basic capability of fighting on the front lines, why not drop them now?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
If you don’t think women can meet the requirements set forth for Marine combat units, you haven’t gotten a chance to see them do it.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 3:51 pm
“Well since the Pusan Perimeter has shown everyone has to have that basic capability of fighting on the front lines, why not drop them now?”

^ I’m all for it, frankly I don’t think there’s that much of a difference. I train to the men’s standard anyway.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
Either JN just likes to argue or invents in his life have jaded him with all minorities. Even the white man’s ancestors had to fight some kind of opression way back in the day to get all they have now in the US. There have been class struggles, race struggles, gender struggles, religious struggles all through out HX. And people had to fight to change things for the better so that everyone can pursuit life , liberty and hapiness
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
The services have already done tests on it, and pass rates are below 30%. You’ll live to see the Department of the Navy billeting homosexual ‘couples’ and helping them to adopt children long before you see the same standards for males & females. The one caveat I’d have is that the standards may be dropped, as they have in so many other ways.
Eric alva Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Any of you fellow Marines have anything negative to say, you are no true Marine then. Come say it to my face. I will be more of a man than any of you whom oppose me. Some of you will never ever be the Marine I was.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:06 pm
“The services have already done tests on it, and pass rates are below 30%. You’ll live to see the Department of the Navy billeting homosexual ‘couples’ and helping them to adopt children long before you see the same standards for males & females. The one caveat I’d have is that the standards may be dropped, as they have in so many other ways.”

^ You know, just because you put “couples” in “quotes” doesn’t make them any less of a couple, either in their own eyes or in the eyes of most Americans.

Guess what? People don’t need your approval to love each other (thank God).

And you can rail against gay marriage all you want, you can stand in our way of adoption, you can try to keep us out of the schools, and you can try to keep us out of your churches, but the one thing you can’t ever do is keep us from loving the people we choose to love.

Galling, isn’t it?
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
Not especially galling nor unusual, it’s as old as Sodom.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I think you need to brush up on your theology. It helps to use a little thing called “historical context”.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
Let me ask, JN, do you follow the entire holiness code of Leviticus? Or just the parts that suit your personal prejudices?
Sgt 0311 Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Im not a fan of repealing DADT but I understand that it time was coming and I’ll get over it. What I don’t understand is how a publication representing the toughest fighting force in the world would dare make a cover like this. It is repulsing to see my Corps represented in such a manner. Just because there will be a few homosexuals coming out because of this doesn’t mean that the whole Corps is gay.

Take it off the stands and print a new cover!!!
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
“It is repulsing to see my Corps represented in such a manner. Just because there will be a few homosexuals coming out because of this doesn’t mean that the whole Corps is gay.”

^ SUBTITLES PEOPLE. For Christ’s sake. Did nobody in the Marines get past high school English Comp?
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
If that city did in fact exist it has been debated by archeologists for just as long
Former Non-Gay Grunt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
@Maverick. Even if I’m not invited. As long as I am simply privy to a hot lesbian story then that’s good enough to put in the spank bank. Please let me know if you have any. I accept both written and video evidence.

And for the record, I didn’t say I am accepting of lesbians. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m not sure that some of the butch lesbians here are even humans.

I said I’m accepting of “hot lesbians.”

And I’m accepting of “hot lesbians,” yet nauseous when I see gay dudes is because I’m an American, therefore I am a hypocrite.

The military is a reflection of our society. Gays in the military was a matter of time. If I was still a Marine, it would bother me, but I could get over it. And the reason it would bother me is only because I was tired of the issue being so damn important then and now. The “respect gay” classes would also bother me as do the “what happens to your penis when you get the Clap” classes. I still didn’t wear a rubber!

So I am glad DADT is over.

Maybe now we can focus that same energy and passion on our wounded. Or maybe we can get a service rifle that actually kills someone. I’d like Lady Gaga to tweet that. In order.

I digress. So just send me your hot lesbians stories.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
well I can appreciate his honesty
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
“And for the record, I didn’t say I am accepting of lesbians. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m not sure that some of the butch lesbians here are even humans.

I said I’m accepting of “hot lesbians.””

^ Hey, I’m a butch lesbian… :/ (and hot). Lots of younger butch lesbians are – just Google “Lesbians that look like Justin Bieber”.

Don’t hate, appreciate!

“I’m an American, therefore I am a hypocrite.”

^ Being an American and being a hypocrite are not synonymous by design. I’d like to think I try hard not to be hypocritical about stuff when I recognize hypocrisy in my perspective on things.

And I’ve been on the gay scene a long time. In my personal experience, at least half of the lesbians I’ve seen were attractive if not drop dead gorgeous [gah, femmes].

Granted, I like the ladies so I’m a little prejudiced. But seriously…hot lesbians are not unicorns! They really do exist! Just like hot gay guys!

I mean, seriously, have you SEEN Chris Colfer and Darren Criss? Can you get any more motherfucking all-American looking than those two?

(‘Course Criss isn’t really gay, he just plays one on TV and stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.)
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:41 pm
I think Ellen’s wife Portia is way hot and Melissa Ethridge’s ex she just left from poplular, well I guess she’s kinda crazy now but way hot
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:45 pm
I dont fal into a butch or femme catagory and I’m getting older now but I qualify as pretty and I give that to my mom and her great genes. At least that’s what I’m told. My wife is a lot younger and hot so, I guess i am doing ok
Former Non-Gay Grunt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
@Maverick. Portia De Rossi is my go 2 hot lesbian for spank sessions. So hot!

If you are a butch lesbian and hot, then my definition of butch lesbian is not the same as yours. How about bull lesbian?

Sorry, but Justin Bieber is a fucking dork. Anyone who looks like him is not attractive and also a fucking dork. My 2 cents. I’d sure like his money though.

Your American. Your also a hypocrite. It’s more a human being thing than just American. It’s natural by design.

I know there are “hot lesbians.” Seen em in San Francisco.

And if your a “hot lesbian,” written and video evidence is acceptable of lesbian acts. I’ll be the judge of your hotness…..because….well….I’m a hypocrite.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Not at all Maverick, you can find an Orthodox Rabbi to explain Leviticus to you, I don’t have the time.

Why not get to work and protest the Boy Scouts on base, they’re the next threat to the march of degeneracy. March on my friend.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
“If you are a butch lesbian and hot, then my definition of butch lesbian is not the same as yours. How about bull lesbian?”

^ Well I guess since the lack of attraction is mutual (bull dykes aren’t into you either, I’m afraid) I can’t very well blame you for your sexual proclivities. =D

“Not at all Maverick, you can find an Orthodox Rabbi to explain Leviticus to you, I don’t have the time.”

^ Right. I totally believe you. It’s amazing how when you point out the religious hypocrisy embraced by some fundamentalist Christians on the issue of homosexuality, nobody ever has a fucking thing to say.

Typical.

Come back when you have more time and grow a spine, JN.
Former Non-Gay Grunt Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Who says I need mutual attraction?
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Sorry Mav, I’m beginning to wonder if you have the intellectual capacity to grasp the concepts involved. Are Roman Catholics or Russian Orthodox or Mormons fundamentalist?

You’re devoted to degeneracy, we got it.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Interesting that I present several arguments for the gay side of the house, but you’re just a broken record with this “degeneracy” bit. It’s actually kind of sad.

From all of the gays and lesbians of the U.S. armed forces, to all of the homophobic members of the U.S. armed forces, with hugs and skips and butterfly kisses:

“STFU and let us do our jobs. Thanks.”
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
“Who says I need mutual attraction?”

^ No, I mean, straight guys are not typically attracted to masculinity, so it makes sense that you wouldn’t be attracted to butches. Unless you were gay of course. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

But anyway, who doesn’t love hot lesbians, amirite?
Unimpressed Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
” It’s amazing how when you point out the religious hypocrisy embraced by some fundamentalist Christians on the issue of homosexuality, nobody ever has a fucking thing to say.”

^Reading these posts and replying is like watching hot girl on girl action – more than amusing.

Seeing a post with JN’s name on it is like the horrible attempt at acting between double-sided wiener scissor fuzz bumping action. You just fast forward through it. Every once in a while you’ll stop to see just to ensure it really wasn’t worth watching.
Ira Zimmermann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
A patriotism that withers in a nation of justice is no patriotism at all.
Phillip Zimmerman Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
When I was discharged from the Navy for being gay, to my surprise, the only military friends that weren’t afraid to reach out to me during the dark days of that investigation were Marines.They instinctively knew bad policy and were not afraid to stand by a shipmate who was hurting and in need. In the end, Marines, you have a tradition to uphold: Stand by your shipmates and remember that a Marine is a Marine PERIOD. I, for one, am proud to know many honorable Marines who, without hesitation or concern for what others thought of them, defended those who were abused, denied their rights, or thown away as inconvenient.

Courage: In the end, that is what is important and makes people admire the Marine Corps. When rights are denied to even one person, there can be no liberty and justice for all.
SGT Ian Finkenbinder Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
Hi,

To those of you NCOs and officers who are on here? Calling the repeal of DADT a disgrace? Badmouthing gay Marines? Shame on you. SHAME ON YOU. You are in charge of gay Marines RIGHT NOW, odds are, and you have a responsibility not just for their lives in combat, but the well-being (to include mental and emotional) at home.

THIS gay former NCO knows enough about honor, duty, and respect to have treated the soldiers (I was in the US Army) under his care equally and without favor nor disfavor. Every soldier I dealt with was dealt with based on their performance as a soldier, not on their private lives. Those of you who are on here saying disgusting things? You are not only a disgrace to your rank and your uniform, you are likely the sort that would endanger your wards based on ridiculous particulars that have ZERO affect on you or their service.

So frankly? Get out of the comments section and do your jobs. We’re gay. GET OVER IT.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
“SGT” Finkenbinder, there is nothing honorable in sodomizing you boyfriend and it won’t gain acceptance.

Get busy working with the Obama campaign though because if a Reagan type candidate is elected you may see your gains reversed.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
^ I’m sure moderate Christians are turning mauve reading this right now.

Yeah, that’s right. I said mauve. Because I’m queer. Wanna fight about it?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
(j/k, in case that wasn’t blatantly obvious)
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Sergeant Finkenbinder, I accept your hot uniformed man-on-man action.

And so does over 76% of America, according to the Gallup polls.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
*67%
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:28 pm
67% embrace homosexual sodomy? Send the link!
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Oh wait, it was 72% in November 2010. Probably higher now.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
http://www.gallup.com/poll/145130/support-repealing-dont-ask-dont-tell.aspx
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
http://www.sldn.org/pages/about-dadt
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
I didn’t say “embrace”. I said “accept”.

There’s a smidge of a difference there.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
JN, do you take moral issue with sodomy between heterosexual couples? Cunnilingus? Frottage? Blowjobs? Pegging?

I’ll wait while you Google.

It’s amazing how heterosexual sex and homosexual sex are pretty much the same, except in heterosexual relationships you always hear about the guy *begging* his girlfriend for anal and blowjobs, while the gays don’t have to beg for it.

Is that the real crux of the issue between straight guys and gay guys? B-day blowjobs versus twice-a-week-or-I’m-checking-his-pulse blowjobs?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
I mean, I’m just trying to understand why peeps are so disgusted when gays basically perform the same sex acts that straights do, they just keep it within one gender.
SGT Ian Finkenbinder Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
JN, I handcuffed myself to the White House fence once to highlight the inadequacies of that policy (link here: http://nation.foxnews.com/dont-ask/2010/11/16/dont-ask-dont-tell-arrest-outside-white-house ) and would gladly do so again, JN. To those candidates that are hinting at reinstatement of that policy I say: bring it. Handcuffs are cheap.

And you, JN? I was pretty much talking to you and people LIKE you. Your obsession with what I do in the bedroom is not just a gross violation of my privacy, but tells a lot about yourself. Why are you so fixated on gay sex? Let us move on with our lives and do our jobs.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
It’s all about how it is worded:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/22/survey-counters-backing-of-gays-in-military/?page=2

By the way, I wonder how the public would respond to a question which asked “Should heterosexual service members be forced to share quarters with homosexual service members” would work out?
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
Ian, just keep away from the blood donation sites, the Boy Scouts, etc. Your perversions aren’t wanted and as the poll of Marines pointed out, will work to the detriment of good order and discipline.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
“By the way, I wonder how the public would respond to a question which asked “Should heterosexual service members be forced to share quarters with homosexual service members” would work out?”

^ Based on many of the comments here, there seem to be quite a few military men who don’t give a damn one way or the other.

They’re sharing quarters right now. Many of them know about it and don’t make a big deal about it.

I think you’re borrowing trouble.
SGT Ian Finkenbinder Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
The only person who seems to be concerned with perversions here is you. I look forward to seeing you in a gay Pride parade 10 years from now in booty shorts and cowboy boots. Here’s another handy-dandy link:

http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/homophobia.htm

I have a feeling you’re a quintessential case of “the lady doth protest too much.” Well, lady, why do you protest so much? Got something in YOUR closet?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
“Ian, just keep away from the blood donation sites, the Boy Scouts, etc. Your perversions aren’t wanted and as the poll of Marines pointed out, will work to the detriment of good order and discipline.”

^ I’m so happy you’re here to represent the other side of the issue, JN. It’s kind of like having the narrator from “Reefer Madness” to debate against.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Maverick,

You’re all about validating you “lifestyle”. My focus has always been functioning within an organization designed to fight and win America’s wars.

I believe in a strong America and not following a course of modern Romans.

The Sodomy Lobby is out in full force on this forum, but you know that if the policy were ever put to a vote among the war fighters the Reagan Policy would never have been changed.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:30 pm
ha ha ha reefer madness now that was funny!
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
“You’re all about validating you “lifestyle”. My focus has always been functioning within an organization designed to fight and win America’s wars.”

^ Dude, you don’t know a thing about my lifestyle. You don’t know anything about me other than that I’m a butch lesbian. And a smartass. Those are the only two facts you know about me. The rest of what you *think* you know is speculative bullshit.

I believe that religious freedom, tolerance, and diversity are strong American ideals, and I’m not afraid to stand up for them.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
SGT IAN has a point, people can disagree and state an opinion but this guy seems absolutely obsessed with Sodomy. Like those chesters who seem like the american pip neghbor but have all these teangae runaway boys burried in his basement
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
pie*
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
If DADT encourages every homophobic jackass in the armed forces to quit, it can only increase cohesion as a unit, not break it. Because these same bigots are usually racists, sexists, and religiously intolerant as well.

These are the folks who are sowing dissension and distrust in the ranks. Not the gays.

The gays are too busy proving that they deserve to be there.
JNWarren Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
“seems absolutely obsessed with Sodomy”

That’s an odd observation from a group that defines themselves as such. WTH, just watch the behavior and keep an eye on your T-Cell count.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
I have less chance of getting HIV then you
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
(Wiki): Homosexuality is romantic and/or sexual attraction or behavior between members of the same sex or gender.

Nope, no sodomy. Not defined as such. Try again.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I dont give or take it up the butt except that one time but I was really drunk
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
now a finger every now and then I can handle
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:02 pm
In 2006, the CDC issued a report stating that there were no confirmed cases of HIV from female-to-female transmission. At all.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
and ass to mouth is sometimes acceptable
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Ass to mouth is pretty much as gay as it gets. That’s like Anderson Cooper in an upscale sushi restaurant gay.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
whats that other one from Clerks …snow balls, how gay is that and straight people aparently do it.
WTH Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Anderson Cooper lmao
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Snowballing? Yeah, how gay is that? Geez, you straight people are kinky.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
But I still love you. <3
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Real men are not gay
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Says who, Sue? You?

I must be delusional then, because I see gay men walking around everywhere, and they’re just as real as the straight ones.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
I wouldn’t get anywhere near them. Of course I have standards and so unlike some of the moronic men here
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
“I wouldn’t get anywhere near them.”

^ Why?
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
the fairy dust might rub off
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
lmfao
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
watch out your gonna catch the gay!
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
You’ll be contemplating horrendous interior design in no time.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
I have no doubt plenty could be caught from them
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:46 pm
What is your definition of a real man?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Oh yeah, like heterosexual people are so pure as the driven fucking snow. Give me a break sweetheart.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:48 pm
better never get married, I’m quite sure a game man probably designed the dress, he might of touched it, then you’ll be playing the 6 degrees of gay in no time!
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
gay* ha ha toggling back and forth from wtrk to this page is not easy
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:51 pm
driven snow, that phrased has always confused me. After driving through the snow it is all black and icky
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
I’m so excited for the younger generation. They seems to be on the right track with safe sex, religion and tolerance for all.
Can of Worms Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 9:57 pm
I’m confused when individuals state that it’s about time there is fair treatment. “Lesbian, Bi-sexual, and Homosexual” service members have been defending this country for years. I have even served with several of them and they have all received fair treatment then, so I don’t know why it will be different now. The argument is openness as the main issue. The need to run out and tell everyone that you are gay is strange because no one runs out and says “hey, I’m straight”. What you do in your spare time is your business. I do however believe that if you prefer the Bat Cave over what nature intended then that’s your business, but the high pitch voice and flamboyancy should not be allowed in the work place for it will be a distraction as well as the hormone injections etc. If service members have to take open showers with gay members, then I think we should just go straight unisex bathrooms, gays regardless if they are interested or not should not get to enjoy showers and bunks with the sex they find attractive…the average man cannot shower with females which some of them they may or may not be attracted too!
Madlax Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Why does any one care does everyone actually expect that the most flamboyant of gays are going to start signing up, and before you know it walk around with their hair in a sock bun. Seriously their are already gays in the military if they come out they come out if they dont they dont and if you could work well with them before you knew why cant you when you do know. Also i agree that the marine times cover is over board, as a degree carrying graphic designer, even though the its got that writing at the bottum to explain itself, the image is the only thing any one will notice.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:01 pm
“The argument is openness as the main issue. The need to run out and tell everyone that you are gay is strange because no one runs out and says “hey, I’m straight”.”

^ The thing about gay visibility is this: it’s necessary to gay rights for gays to self-identify so people can get an idea of how many of us there are.

Why is that important? Because it’s harder to hate gays and lesbians when you find out they’re your siblings, your classmates, your coworkers, your friends, and your clergy. They’re still the same people you knew before, the same people you liked and respected, they just happen to be gay.

It’s important for people to know that gays and lesbians are normal, so we can lead normal lives free of persecution, discrimination, and brutality.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:04 pm
It’s not about rubbing it in anyone’s face at all. It’s about not wanting to be a societal scapegoat anymore. Nobody has the right to treat us like crap just because they disagree with the way we live. We’re all Americans and we deserve to live our own lives without the intrusion of others based on their personal beliefs.
Can of Worms Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:07 pm
The only rights that are denied in the service are the rights that you waive and agree to when you sign the contract. We have a volunteer service, so for people to feel suppressed or stifled in some shape, form or fashion is strange. Why sign a contract that is in black and white, and then complain about the rules later? Why claim to have fellow service members stand up for what is right when back then it was straight up wrong?…what will the complaint be tomorrow…Let fat people in? Let midgets in? the rules were set to maintain good order and discipline, and now open up wide and get force feed because there is no choice but to take it! There will be a lot of casualties in the coming months and years, get ready!!!!!!!
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
uh no one wants to shout out “hey I’m gay”, they just don’t want to have to be kicked out just because they are. Straight people don’t have to pretend they are gay and not be able to include their wife in their military life.

I know plenty of straight males that are naturally feminine and plenty of gay guys who are masculine and the same for females. That’s not the entire gay population, just like not every black man loves KFC and watermelon and not every white man likes nascar and wrestling
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
“I don’t give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We’re making a big deal out of things we shouldn’t be making a deal out of … Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want.” Clint Eastwood
Can of Worms Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
It’s funny how surveys were taken to see how the climate was on this topic…I can assure you that the majority of service members and people were apposed to it, and yet some how it passed?…Ponder that!…If this was not some political bull, I don’t know what is
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:09 pm
“There will be a lot of casualties in the coming months and years, get ready!!!!!!!”

^ That’s pretty sick man. Wow.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
No wonder our troops dont win wars anymore. The gay problem has demoralized the troops
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Actually, I’m not worried. Pretty sure that the queers can take care of themselves, thank you very much.

Being soldiers and all.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
ya that is why we dont win none of them there wars!! I wish for the good ol day of Vietnam! Now that was a war! and btw its war it may sometimes be a necessary evil but moral?
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Do folks honestly want to go around picking open fights with a group of people who have been getting into fights over their sexuality their entire lives? It’s not like they haven’t had any practice in hand to hand or anything.

Give me maybe three bigots and it’ll be a fair fight.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
The USA lost in Vietnam
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
It would not surprise me if many of the troops refuse to sleep in the same barracks with these misfits and on the battlefield…well you know how those sstray bullets aree
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:27 pm
Not all gay people are prancing uber-queens (<cool if you are though). Some gays are either middle of the road or really macho. That's usually the type that joins the military.

More Mulan than Moulin Rouge.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
“on the battlefield…well you know how those sstray bullets aree”

^ You’re a terrible person.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
the USA didn’t win Vietnam, damn must of been the gays fault back then too
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
United States Marine Corps

11/10/1775-09/20/2011
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
The troops were demoralized for assorted reasons
Today the gays no doubt are demoralizing the real men on the front lines
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Drama queen.
Maverick Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Seriously, people complain about us being drama queens, but you guys take the cake.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
do you picket service men’s funerals too? I know them gays are causing a lot of problems in this world. Get all the gays out now then we will win! We just need a moral booster! that is the tactic the pentagon has been missing, can’t be because warfare in a modern world is far more complicated then it ever was.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 10:52 pm
Picket funerals? I mean sseriously you are whining now. Why would I even expect more from someone of your caliber.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
well you did say now, guess that mean ur admitting to the whining.
Kyle Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Once again someone has to shit on this thread and piss everyone off. There are gay people serving. Get the fuck over it. All I ask is they do their jobs and keep home life at home. Also to the straight people do your damn jobs and keep your home life home. I do not want to know how your sex is with your partner REGARDLESS of you sexuality.

I will say this and I will literally die laughing if it happens. You know when a guy comes into work and complains about his wife and is say she acting like a bitch, I cant wait until a gay dude comes in and says his boyfriend is acting like a fag. I hope I am not drinking or eating anything because I may just choke. If it happens it may be the funniest thing to ever happen ever.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:09 pm
It is too bad that tax monies taken from good upstanding moral individuals are being used to fund these gala gay military events.
To think, at one time we had the best military in the world. Now it is full of men wearing the same kind of panties that I do
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
my caliber? And what is my caliber? I have two jobs, a wife, a son, a dog and a cat. A snake, but I don’t claim him, its my wife’s. I have a nice home, two cars, bills debt, love, friends and family. Average working class american life.
wth Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:14 pm
gala gay military events? wtf? However I don’t think the femmy gay boys would be caught dead in granny panties.
Kyle Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
Sueann that comment is one of the most ignorant statements ever made. Our Military specifically the United States Marine Corps is still the fucking best. Oh BTW this STRAIGHT MAN donned a modified thong and ran around in country because I fucking could. They were leopard print and sexy. I just blew your mind that a straight man wore your same panties. Your generalization of gays is so ridiculous that I don’t think you have even met one. The gay men and women I have known are the same as your “pure” people. They like dick and va-jay-jay but it does not make them lesser than you. SOme of these gays have been more loyal to country and their partner than a lot of hetero’s. You ma’am are a du-mas.
sueann Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:19 pm
How disgusting. A male can not be a wife
jdl Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:21 pm
sueann … seek therapy, now!
jdl Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Well said, Kyle!
Conquer Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:26 pm
Only steers and queers come from texas and I don’t see any horns…
Kyle Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:29 pm
How disgusting Sueann cant read. If you would have educated your self in the characters in this thread yo might have known that WTH is of the vagina liking gays and not the penis liking gays. Also if you would use a little fucking common sense you might know that gay dudes are husbands and gay chicks use wifes. I have heard of bi-curious but Bi-stupid? No no you are full stupid
jdl Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
sueann ? Michele Bachmann, what the hell are you doing here???
jdl Says:
September 15th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
I can’t wait for the study a couple years down the road on the impact of dadt repeal. The folks who fought so hard and so long to “keep the gays out” are going to look even dumber than they do now. Negative impact post 9/20/11? Non-existent. And if bigots leave the military as a result of the policy change … well that’s just one more reason for the policy to end. Those service men/women who hold and espouse sueann’s viewpoint need to be drummed out. Talk about a morale booster!
sergeant brofist Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:09 am
gay, straight, who cares? let them serve openly. just keep your sex life away from your professional life.

i’m not gay, i have gay friends, i know some gay marines. they don’t tell me about their weekend sausage fests and i don’t tell them when my wife lets me have anal.

by the way, openly gay marines are nothing new…just look at gung-ho from gi joe: powder blue vest with matching camo bottoms, rippling abs, huge blue ega tatted on his chest and a handlebar mustache. he looked like one of the village people. dude was flaming.
sergeant brofist Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:16 am
by the way, this publication is absurd, theres no need to get bent out of shape about it. military times are worse than tabloids.
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:18 am
@ sueann, my wife is a female um so am I ? wth
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:26 am
ha ha ha I believe JDL is right down the line people will look at this point in history and say really? Why all the fuss. I didnt even know military times existed. My mom posted this on her face book cuz well she has a retired marine son and a gay daughter and she is quite the political activist. I get bored at work and sometimes read the threads and this one was quite entertaining.
MajorDomo0210 Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:30 am
Regarding the DADT repeal…initiated by a draft dodger and enacted by a illegitimate President, (fraudulent social security number and birth certificate), what are we coming to?
The fact is, homosexuals are unstable and the military is not a democracy.
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:33 am
unstable, i live a more stable life then many of my straight friends. People are stable, poepl are unstable in all walks of life.
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:36 am
but oh no its a FACT!! i GUESS I BETTER START DRINKING AND BEATING MY KID AND SLEEPING AROUND ON MY WIFE DON’T WANT TO BE A MYTH BUSTER
Crusty_11b20 Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:43 am
I just love it when people start beating you over the head with a bible and screaming “JESUS LOVES YOU!” For all of you invoking God to back your argument against the repeal, 1: This Nation wasn’t founded under God. 2: For an All Loving God to condemn someone to hell because they are attracted to the same sex……that doesn’t sound very loving to me. If you are a service member, you swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America, that being said, Educate yourself on said Constitution, specifically the part about Freedom of Religion, (it’s under the same Amendment you’re invoking in order to verbally attack everyone who’s different from you), STFU and get back to attacking the real enemies of this fabulous Nation.

Sincerely,
A God Fearing, Conservative, Pro-Rights Supporting, Constitutionalist Infantryman.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:37 am
“Regarding the DADT repeal…initiated by a draft dodger and enacted by a illegitimate President, (fraudulent social security number and birth certificate), what are we coming to?”

^ Yeah, you sound REAL stable.

“The fact is, homosexuals are unstable and the military is not a democracy.”

^ The fact is, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. And in a post-Google age, well, that’s just a GD crying shame.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:43 am
“Why would I even expect more from someone of your caliber.”

^ Ma’am, you better just hope you don’t ever meet someone of my caliber.

Enemies foreign AND domestic, remember?
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:46 am
I’ll defend against both types.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:47 am
But you have a right to your opinion.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:54 am
If anyone wants to know more about lesbians in a purely educational sense: http://effingdykes.blogspot.com/
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:06 am
^ (NSFW maybe…just ’cause she talks about sex in some parts)
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:09 am
(but mostly not)
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:04 am
“It is too bad that tax monies taken from good upstanding moral individuals are being used to fund these gala gay military events.”

^ Is it bad that instantaneously question the morals of anyone who declares themselves “good upstanding moral individuals”? I must just be a cynical bastard at the ripe old age of 26.

People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:09 am
*I
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:54 am
Maverick, I want to have a beer with you!
It’s comforting to know there are people like you in our military and I’m happy that after next Tuesday you’ll no longer have to hide part of yourself. You’re knocking them out of the park but, as we all know, a lot of this ignorance and bigotry will only be cured by embalming fluid! The younger generation is way ahead of us on this and many other issues. I’m glad this dinosaur thinking is almost extinct! Semper Fi!
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:01 am
@Maverick

I will say that women all over the world have turned me somewhat mysogynistic. I have no issues with feminine women. I do have a problem with masculine women. Reason for the misogyny is that most women are weak and pathetic. And the ones I meet in the Army are too promiscuous. Now, I’m not saying men aren’t, they’re dogs too. But I’m not interested about men so I don’t care what they do. But the women of my family give me hope for womankind as a whole. Its the only thing keeping me from fullblown misogyny. I think I’m more anti-feminist than anything. I just want them to stop emasculating men as a whole.

But as for men, I have no problem with them being tender or gentle, because these are still masculine traits when directed at offspring and women. When a man is gentle and tender with a man outside paternal or fraternal instinct it becomes anathema. I’m naturally repulsed by it. But don’t get me wrong, I just don’t agree with male homosexual acts. If someone is happy being gay by all means s/he is welcome to it.

We all have our bad eggs across all walks of life regardless of orientation, gender, color: Its them that cause us to object. Seriously, if all gay men were like Neil Patrick Harris, I would have no qualms about being around them unless PDA is involved. I don’t like seeing hetero PDA either before you jump on that. Unfortunately, its the “Bruno” gays I can’t stand being around.

I think if humanity as a whole dropped their superiority complex about everything, there wouldn’t be much fighting.

All in all, I will believe in equality when the following happens:
People are held to one standard without any being treated special because they are different.
Where a man/woman can strike each other and no one cries gender foul.
Where people actually have to earn respect not demand it because they are ‘different’.
And I want to be able to list Viking as my ethnicity without someone rolling their eyes at me or bitching.

As for
“I think you just don’t like to see feminity expressed openly by another man, because it means all of the male mantras – stoic silence, invincibility, toughness, calm, etc… – are really unnecessary standards that men hold themselves to.” The fact that women hold it as unecessary shows how little of the male psyche they truly comprehend. Religion aside, we have instinctual roles. Men are the Predators. We have the natural aptitude for it. This has nothing to do with a woman’s role. This is the nature of man. In truth, men don’t need women beyond the desire to reproduce and to protect something. I envy gay men in this regard because they have found a true companion who is their complete equal.

As for the link, should have had a battle buddy. I have a friend who tried to tell me I don’t have street smarts and if I walked down his streets I’d get murdered, because I’m white and don’t know the streets. I told him I do have street smarts. Those streets you walk down that you need to have street smarts for? I don’t walk down those streets. Its just like women and rape cases. Its not just gay hate. And yes, if their is crime, regardless of who the victim is, justice needs to be done. I’m a pretty white boy, I know for fact there are men out there who consider themselves straight who if I walked down the wrong alley would attempt to rape me. I’m conscious of this and act accordingly.

This is natural selection at its finest. We all have to die sometime, and yes death saddens us no matter who it is. Nobody ‘deserves’ to live. You have to earn that right. When I die, I know I deserved it.

I understand your points, Maverick, but I don’t think you understand mine. I don’t care about the DADT repeal. We have bigger problems. The whole of American society is weaker now than it has ever been before for whatever reason. We’re making the future generations soft. We are not preparing them for life.

We are the successors to the Roman Empire, and like Rome, I forsee the day we will burn as Nero fiddles.

But I can see why Marines are upset. The Cover does present the possible interpration of discrediting the Marine Corps’ public image. Because no matter how progressive we as a society are, homosexuality is still considered a negative thing. And the Cover can insinuate that the USMC is gay. The same way many Americans would react if we replaced the word God with Allah.
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:05 am
Oh… and as far as the Faith comments by others: Extra 2 cents…

Judge not lest ye be judged.
Let ye who are without sin cast the first stone.
All sins are equal.
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:08 am
“upstanding moral individuals” is a relative term, because it’s based on one’s own principles of what is right and what is wrong.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:14 am
“I do have a problem with masculine women.”

^ So, as a masculine woman, I gotta ask – what is it?

“Reason for the misogyny is that most women are weak and pathetic. And the ones I meet in the Army are too promiscuous.”

^ If you think most women are weak and pathetic, you haven’t hung out with enough dykes. (Or women in general.) Just my opinion.

I find a lot of the guys on this thread who are asshurt over the repeal to be pretty weak and pathetic, honestly. It kind of hurts me that some of them are even associated with the military at all.

“But as for men, I have no problem with them being tender or gentle, because these are still masculine traits when directed at offspring and women. When a man is gentle and tender with a man outside paternal or fraternal instinct it becomes anathema.”

^ I don’t understand why tenderness and gentility aren’t positive traits no matter *who* they’re directed at.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:22 am
“This is natural selection at its finest. We all have to die sometime, and yes death saddens us no matter who it is. Nobody ‘deserves’ to live. You have to earn that right. When I die, I know I deserved it.”

^ I’m sorry, queer bashing is not equivalent to natural selection.

Everyone deserves to live in freedom and peace. If not, what is the point of a nation in the first damned place? May as well be everyone for themselves.

But I believe in civility and that as f*cked up as the United States can be sometimes, it’s still the beacon of the free world. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t do what I do.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:28 am
“In truth, men don’t need women beyond the desire to reproduce.”

^ Funny, feminists say the same thing about you guys. *lolz* I believe in post-gender society though. I think all this pink versus blue nonsense is just the epitome of divisive, petty bullshit.

There’s not as much difference between women and men as you’d like to think.
annideluc Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:32 am
You’d have to be a complete and utter idiot if you honestly believe that this cover and headline would lead anyone, except other complete and utter idiots, to believe that the entire Marine Corps is gay. Get over your homophobia and get with the program already because those of us who aren’t complete idiots and bigots aren’t going to wait around for you to drag your head out of your ass and finally understand that it’s not a big fucking deal and that everyone deserves equal rights.

Some people are gay. Some gays serve in the military. So the fuck what?
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:46 am
“From Marwar to Cochabamba
we are the warriors that won’t get conquered
‘Cause rising tides drown all villages
Divided fighters succumb to pillage
Rescuers whatever your latitude
it’s time to pioneer a new world attitude.”
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:58 am
“And I want to be able to list Viking as my ethnicity without someone rolling their eyes at me or bitching.”

^ So you want special privileges, but you don’t want anyone else to be able to ask for them?

What’s up with that man?

I want to be able to walk down the street with my girlfriend, holding her hand, without having anyone roll their eyes or bitch and moan about how I’m corrupting their “upstanding moral citizens” with my unobtrusive monogamy.

I think we’re pretty close to the same side of the argument.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:01 am
Just in case anyone get’s the wrong idea, I don’t consider equal civil rights a “special privilege”. Just one of the many perks of living in a secular Western country.

(Supposedly.)
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:01 am
*gets
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:01 am
What makes you think you are a masculine woman? There are non-dykes who are tough yet still womanly. I know many dykes who consider themselves masculine who in my eyes are still quite feminine. Penis envy aside. An exgf of mine went openly gay after she divorced her husband, I know plenty of dykes and there are a few strong women but most are weak. (keep in mind, not necessarily physical).
Like I said, humainty as a whole is weak.

Most of my issues are just an instinctual dislike. It really has no rational basis that I am aware of hence why I am nonjudgemental of the persons themselves. I also have an irrational hatred of fat people.

“^ I don’t understand why tenderness and gentility aren’t positive traits no matter *who* they’re directed at.”

Context is everything. Just as it is okay to kill someone in certain context, just as in some context good intentions may do more harm.

“^ I’m sorry, queer bashing is not equivalent to natural selection. ”

Of course it is. Your personal bias is naturally against it. Motive is irrelevant. Those fit to survive will live, those unfit will die. This is the law of the jungle. Civilization is an artificial construct and an abomination in the eyes of nature. But Civilization ie nations were built to keep out the Jungle to protect the weak. Life is not just. Life is not fair. Nor is life unfair. It just is.
Reverse the situation. Say a whole bunch of fags went breeder bashing, it would still be natural selection. Life is a struggle and life is pain. Anyone who says otherwise is selling you something.

But Maverick, let me say this as honestly as I can and in complete seriousness. I’m glad of your service. Because service to the Ideals represented by our Flag is every Americans Civic Duty, regardless of differences, and you rose to the call.

Everyone who wears a uniform doesn’t represent a Faith, an Ethnicity, a Gender, or an Orientation. You represent the American Flag and everything it is a symbol for. Its not a rainbow. Its not an elephant. Its not a jackass. Its not a white hood. Its the symbol of Freedom.

But nobody deserves that freedom. No one is entitled to it. It must be earned. And the American people as a whole have forgotten this. We fight for it on behalf of the enire Nation. We earned it as a Nation. DADT repeal isn’t a victory. Its a step towards doing what is right in a land divided by beliefs.

As a relative of mine said towards the end of the war. Now is not the time to celebrate, it is the time to heal. (paraphrased)
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:17 am
“What makes you think you are a masculine woman?”

^ Believe me, if you have a problem with butch women, you’d be offended if you saw me come walking down the street. You’d “instinctively dislike” me if what you say about your issues with misogyny and “women emasculating men” are true.

And penis envy has nothing to do with it. Perfectly capable of attracting women without one, don’t mind not having to walk around with something soft and vulnerable hanging between my legs, and some women actually like a sexual partner who can espouse all the positive aspects of masculinity with none of the negative ones.

” . . . a butch is someone who has taken on the best gendered characteristics of both woman and man, left a lot of the stuff born of misogyny and heterosexism behind, and walked forward into the world without apology.” – S. Bear Bergman

If it wasn’t for the hourglass figure hidden in my cargo jeans and the curvature of my face beneath my military cap, you’d probably mistake me for a young man on the street. So yeah, that’s how I define myself as a masculine woman. I’m a gender non-conformist and that’s just who I am. I’ve never been a “feminine woman” and never will be, though I don’t see anything wrong with women who are and find it pretty attractive.

I still disagree with you that women are weak, but I mean, with you being a semi-misogynist and me being a semi-feminist, we could go round and round with that bull if we wanted to.

“But nobody deserves that freedom. No one is entitled to it. It must be earned.”

^ I think queers have proven that we’re more than happy to go to bat for our freedom as American citizens, if that’s what it takes.

I’m just sad that we have to fight tooth and nail to enforce the concept of freedom in a country where it is commonly accepted as the highest ideal.
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 12:35 pm
lol, I’m not saying men aren’t weak either. And you can be strong without being masculine. Being masculine is both about the pros and cons of being a man. And as a woman, if you don’t express the penis envy, then you aren’t a ‘masculine’ woman. Which is good if you consider yourself a gender non conformist. However, there is nothing unfeminine about lesbianism. But then again I suppose we would have to agree on what each word meant.

By penis envy, I mean the lesbians who equate having a toy being their literal penis. Its the woman who want to be men and the men who want to be women that I instinctively reject. Its the people who just want to be themselves that I accept. But everyone is a case-by-case basis.

You’re still microcosm to my macrocosm. Who cares about queers or straights? Think of equality for all people. People are drawn to extreme points of view, find the moderate view. Drop the pro-gay rights venue and just support equality regardless of views.

For example, in Texas I believe it was chick-fillet that catered out to an antigay conference. Because the business did business with these hate-filled people, they were banned from doing business at a pro-gay college. They basically justified it by saying they shouldn’t have served food to the antigays, saying it was okay to discriminate against antigays.

Then the deal with the woman who cut off her husband’s penis and put it in the garbage disposal. Women all over were acting joyful and making jokes about it. Some even said he probably deserved it. Do you think they would have been the same way if a man did something similar to a woman? Sure it happens in other countries but this is America.

Regardless of our personal views we live in a country where we declared everyone has freedom to say anything. So they should be free to hate. If they want to voice hate against gays, let them. They want to voice hate against straights, let them. Hate against blacks, whites, men, women, let them. Treat them unfairly? Hell no. When Justice is done, nod your head in approval and move on. When Justice is thwarted rise up and display outrage.

You sound like a decent woman so personality alone would make up for any misgivings I would have.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
“And as a woman, if you don’t express the penis envy, then you aren’t a ‘masculine’ woman.”

^ So what facets of humanity do you consider masculine, and which of them do you consider feminine, if the most positive aspects of humanity (strength, fortitude, etc..) are considered unisex?

I consider myself masculine because I have always just identified more with what people consider to be masculine traits and mannerisms. Believe me, I was getting called a baby dyke before I even knew what the word meant. These are not conscious behaviors that people “put on” in order to act out some sort of gender-based societal role. Lots of women are born to shop, accessorize, nuture, explore their feelings, all that beautiful femmy stuff I just love about ‘em. Femininity is one of the main things that attracts me to females in the first place.

But I wasn’t born that way. Growing up I always self-identified with the men and the boys and the things that men and boys do. When other girls were playing with Barbies, all I wanted was a G. I. Joe. These aren’t conditioned responses, they’re just terms of self identity.

“Think of equality for all people. People are drawn to extreme points of view, find the moderate view. Drop the pro-gay rights venue and just support equality regardless of views.”

^ I was actually a civil rights activist years before I ever got involved in gay rights, and I hold very moderate views politically. I actually don’t even consider myself involved in gay rights other than supporting the rights of gays to do the following:

- Cohabitate peacefully and raise children with the same rights as heterosexual couples.
- Serve in their country’s military without having to lie.
- Be able to walk down the street (or hang out in their own clubs) without having to worry about being beaten or murdered by a bigot and having society’s response be, “Meh. Fucking faggot had it coming.”

“For example, in Texas I believe it was chick-fillet that catered out to an antigay conference. Because the business did business with these hate-filled people, they were banned from doing business at a pro-gay college.”

^ I don’t agree with this; however, you have to keep in mind that Chick Fil A didn’t just cater to an anti-gay conference, Chick Fil A has actually donated a LOT of money to anti-gay causes. So it’s not just a “eye for an eye” sort of deal. It’s a boycott over the company choosing a side when corporations – if they know what’s good for them – should stay neutral in political affairs.

If they want to choose against the gays, they can’t very well bitch when the the gays say “Fine, we’ll get our chicken sandwiches at Wendy’s.”

Chick Fil A’s charitable division has provided more than $1.1 million to organizations that deliver anti-LGBT messages and promote egregious practices like reparative therapy that seek to “free” people of being gay.

“Then the deal with the woman who cut off her husband’s penis and put it in the garbage disposal. Women all over were acting joyful and making jokes about it.”

^ This is craziness. If love is love regardless of gender, then violence is violence regardless of gender as well. I don’t find it acceptable at all. I don’t even like that Carrie Underwood song about her vandalizing her boyfriend’s car for cheating. Society would NEVER put up with a similar song from a man about tearing up his girlfriend’s car. *Never*.

“You sound like a decent woman so personality alone would make up for any misgivings I would have.”

^ Gotta say, the sentiment is mutual, and I really appreciate you discussing the issue in a friendly manner with me. =)
Will Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
I am going to cancel my subscription to the Marine Corps times, as it clearly does not represent the Marines that serve anymore. The entire Marine Corps is not gay, as this would insinuate. This front page is so “in your face” about it, since when did sexual preference, specifically gay preferences, become such a big deal? I don’t care, give me news on the two wars we are in and the troops that are dying that aren’t even getting this much attention.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
*political affairs = culture war.

Obviously corporations are going to get involved when it comes to their own self-interest in business.

But choosing sides against the queers is stupid, because say the generally-accepted statistic is right and we are roughly 10% of the population.

You’re gonna basically “tithe away” 10% of your business just to make a point of discriminating against people?

Bad business man.

Industries that have embraced the gay rights movement are finding themselves sitting like pretty kitties right now, because queers generally have a *lot* of disposable income, and apparently a lot of us like to buy stuff too.

So from an economic standpoint, it’s kind of stupid to say, “No, we don’t want all of the money you’ve socked away from NOT raising 2.5 kids, go spend it on a Jamaican vacation why don’t you?”
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
“I am going to cancel my subscription to the Marine Corps times, as it clearly does not represent the Marines that serve anymore. The entire Marine Corps is not gay, as this would insinuate.”

^ You’re right, that’s totally what they’re saying. If there are gay Marines, that must mean all Marines are gay. Perfectly sound logic.

Carry on.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
Here’s some background on the Chick Fil A issue: http://equalitymatters.org/blog/201103220005

For what it’s worth, I still eat there. Heh.
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
I’ve enjoyed reading tankmans comments, a different view from mine, but made in a “respectable this is what i believe manner” and i respect his view and his right to express it.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
^ Word.

Americans should be able to disagree without the conversation devolving into “my ideology can kick your ideology’s ass” sort of convolutions.

It’s just hard to converse respectfully from people who have you pegged as a “perverse degenerate” right out of the gate, without even taking two seconds to get to know you as a human being first.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
*with
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:45 pm
well in that respect his comment of “equality for all people.” is in the end what will get this human race of ours where it should be
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Gay rights are human rights.
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
^word right back at you- when we achieve equality for all people then individuals/”groups” will not have to fight for these rights, it will come natural. It doesn’t only have to be a fictional star trek episode.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
“Why can’t they have gay people in the army? Personally, I think they’re just afraid of a thousand guys with M-16s going, ‘Who’d you call a f****t?’” – John Stewart
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:18 pm
*Jon even
Sgt Mc (2000-2009) Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
And this is why my wife and I are happy that I’m OUT. I enjoyed my time but I wouldn’t be able to continue on under the boobery that will happen in the up coming years and birthday balls.

Birthday balls will become a mockery of the Marine Corps with men wearing dresses and transexuals parading around the ball room.

KV will never be the same again

JANE Wayne day at work….will never be the same again

Family day, never be the same again

Restroom facilities and total BEQ/BOQ areas will require emense overhauls to accomidate sexual preferences.

All-male MOS’s will never be the same again (I couldn’t really imagine having a AAV crew be mixed gay/non-gay…… there’d be no more “ball showing” games or anything of that nature that made going to the field FUN.

The list just goes on and I’m glad to be out.

R.I.P good ‘ol days.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
“Birthday balls will become a mockery of the Marine Corps with men wearing dresses and transexuals parading around the ball room.”

^ Yes, I’m sure that was the first thought that crossed the minds of gay Marines when they heard about DADT repeal: “Thank God I’ll be able to wear that strapless number to Birthday Ball now!”

“Restroom facilities and total BEQ/BOQ areas will require emense overhauls to accomidate sexual preferences.”

^ Why?

“All-male MOS’s will never be the same again (I couldn’t really imagine having a AAV crew be mixed gay/non-gay…… there’d be no more “ball showing” games or anything of that nature that made going to the field FUN.”

^ Ball-showing games?

Dude, that’s fuckin’ gay. And not like “stupid” gay. Like Perez Hilton in a poodle skirt gay.
Sgt Mc (2000-2009) Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:48 pm
Don’t waste your time trying to debate with me Maverick, if you are questioning ball showing games, you’ve had a very sheltered career away from the field and a REAL MOS.

That or you are some random poser.

OUT.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
I just question a guy who takes umbrage with guys hypothetically wearing dresses to Birthday Ball, but wants to defend his right to stare at the testicles of other men.

For FUN!
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
“I can assure you that the majority of service members and people were apposed to it”

‘Can of Worms’ you’re probably spot on in that observation. It is likely the reason that they also asked for input from spouses, etc.

However, we don’t limit elections or anything else to those who served. With the end of conscription, most families don’t have anybody involved in the fighting anyway and we’ve had to drop standards across the board to compensate.
Dewey,AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:00 pm
The USMC is finished! Gays destroy everything they touch. They will mold the USMC into their own image. They will persecute any and everyone who does not accept their perversity. It will not happen on 21sep11. 5 years from now the Corps will be nothing but a flilthy rag of its former self. It will be 100 percent ruled by gays. I mourn for the Corps.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I mourn the grammar of our detractors. This is what we get when we only spend 2% of the national budget on education.
Dewey,AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Gays are all extremely sick twisted individuals. Look what they do with eachother. What they do is nothing short of an abomination!! The Bible prescribes a penalty for homosexual acts. I agree with the penalty and long for the day that it will be enforced.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Spoken like true Taliban.
Dewey,AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:09 pm
Maverick-You are bothered by others grammar? Yet we have to endure sick disgusting perverts like you and be glad about it? Personally, I will never accept homosexuality as anything other than the most evil perevse act any two willing people can commit with eachother.
Dewey,AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
The overwhelming majority of the American public has no idea what gays do to eachother. If they did they would vomit.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:14 pm
^ I’m bothered by idiots, not necessarily grammar. Being unable to use correct grammar can be indicative of who might in fact be a moron though. I’ve found it pretty useful in gauging someone’s relative intelligence.

It’s kind of like stupid-dar instead of gay-dar.

The overwhelming majority of the American public does to each other what gays do to each other.

Maybe if you’d had a comprehensive sex education in school, you’d understand that.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Dewey – Hope you don’t ever ask your girl for head. Wouldn’t want to practice sexual impurity would we?
MSgt, USMC (Ret.) Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
@ Eric alva

“Any of you fellow Marines have anything negative to say, you are no true Marine then. Come say it to my face. I will be more of a man than any of you whom oppose me. Some of you will never ever be the Marine I was.”

Does this go for Sgt Dakota Meyers too? Just wondering if he fits into your level of high standards regarding this issue?

Not worthy to be in your grid, no meritorious promotions, no multiple tours in Iraq, no TBIs, no 9 personal awards, etc.

I’ll turn in my Eagle , Globe, and Anchor.

You should read some of the responses. Bottom line, live with the change, keep moving, and do your job. Unless it is a hate crime or a comment that is directly pointed to you or others that is ment to demoralize – then you can stand your ground in this manner.

To do otherwise before hand degrades the fabric our Corps and Ethos.
USMC VietVet 70/71 Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
That’s the MOST shameful photo I’ve even seen Dress Blues use for.

Canceling my subscription.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:28 pm
^ I agree with MSt, USMC (Ret.).

I’m sure there are good Marines out there who strongly disapprove of DADT repeal. I’m sure you’ve earned your place, same as anyone else, and you’re entitled to your opinions as ridiculous as I personally might find them. Can’t say I respect your opinion, but I respect your right to have one.

That being said, just know that if I see your “personal beliefs” encroach on the basic rights of one of your brothers-in-arms, whether that involves slanderous talk or physical intimidation, I *will* put a boot up your ass. Metaphorically or otherwise.
sgt-11B2P Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
I guess I’m confused. The MC Times cover is a bit overboard for me I think, and if I were in the Corps, I would be freakin pissed. Seems we all are too eager to push our views, irregardless of what those beliefs are down each other’s throats (no pun intended…though i guess it works!).

I’m a homo…I served in the Regular Army from 2000-2004–I know it wasn’t the Corps…will field those jokes as they come! A couple weeks after 11 Sept 01, I was deployed to DC for the anthrax scare (nasty shit). Soon after I received orders for Afghanistan, then almost immediately afterwards I was ordered to Iraq. All in all, out of 4 years, I served 26 months deployed. During this time I held 2 mos. What was then 54B (NBC Warfare), and 11B…Infantry. During my overseas service, I was assigned to the 101st ABN Div (Air Assault). A number of the men in my platoon either knew or suspected that I was different. HOWEVER, I did not act out, nor did I impose myself on others (nor did I allow others to impose themselves or their beliefs on me.) Simple military discipline. When I was promoted to sergeant, I was told that my conduct and ability to work cohesively with the men in my unit was the prime reason for early promotion.

Now that I’ve spewed out this barely relevant bs. I think that we are concerned that the stereotype will become the norm. I doubt it. Good order and discipline, remember. Even given my “homo” status, I can say that I wouldn’t and didn’t tolerate attention seekers of any kind…fairness right?

As for guys wearing dresses to military functions…well if thats what they really want to do.. I would hate to be the one to try it…at least where I’m from corrective action really sucked. Disrespected an NCO once as an E-2…spent a whole weekend digging foxholes and filling them in.

I guess the point is…there are alot of things that we don’t like…and I can understand why people might be bothered by this policy change…at least from my experience isn’t maintaining good order and discipline a NCO’s perrogative? I have been a asked to consider going into the corps as an ocs candidate, and I know now being a bit older than I was then, that If I do I will be watched…and If I do, I will do my damnedest to ensure that I meet or exceed the standards that the military has set forth and will bury a boot in anyone who doesn’t.

A note on communal showers:
The only times in my career that I had to deal with them was at Ft. Benning for basic and In Afghanistan/Iraq.

Again for my part. My eyes DID NOT wander….In basic, I think, all of us were more concerned about the drill and what he had in store for us next…our 2 min showers every evening were silent, and supervised. Failure to move quickly enough or to make noise resulted in either several hours of pt and/or an ass whooping by everyone else who didn’t want to have to do another 2 hours of pt.

In Afghanistan/Iraq…We were there early on…had showers once a week in Kandahar to about Apr/May sometime…nobody gave a shit about anyone else’s junk, looks etc…a bit more concerned about where the next 7.62 or rpg was gonna come from. To me eyeballing someone is disrespectful, I don’t do it, won’t do it and get pretty pissed when its done to me. So I don’t know…

I can even take jokes, wisecracks and insults…doesn’t and didn’t phase me any…
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Dewey,
I’m curious how you know (and “most” Americans don’t) what gays do behind closed doors? You spankin’ it to gay porn again? Dude, you need some help!
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
This just keeps going. Wow. Still no one has ever answered my question. If gays are already in the military under DADT, how does the shower situation change simply because they can state they are gay if they so choose?
USMC VietVet 70/71 Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 4:50 pm
Give em an inch,,,and they’ll will want six?
WTH Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Well I am not in the forces but I have been out a long time and in high school when we showered and changed, sneaking a look was the farthest thing from my mind. I focused on getting dressed and getting to class, hell I didnt want girls to look at me. As an adult I’ve been in griup changing rooms and again I am modest with my own body, I would not want to make someone freak out by looking at them. When I am around straight and or mixed friends in a changing situation I am the one that had to get over the whole modesty thing they could care less, it’s just changing your clothes showering its not sexual.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
“Give em an inch,,,and they’ll will want six?”

^ I LOL’ed.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
You’ll never get an answer *WTH* because it’s just ignorant nonsense. It’s a riot because the dudes who are so concerned about showering with “the gay” are quite likely nothing to look at anyway. “Why is it always the big smelly guys that think all the gays want them?” (Buddy Cole, Kids in the Hall) lol Grow up and do your job! Believe me, you’re safe in the shower. But, just to be safe, don’t drop the soap!
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:15 pm
I’m with WTH. I hate changing in front of other women and am paranoid that other women might think I’m looking at them (even when I’m completely disinterested) just because people sexualize queer people so much.

Therefore, butch lesbian in shower has got to be thinking all kinds of crazy horndog thoughts about the straight girls around her, right? Not so grasshopper. I’m usually thinking about the regular shower things like soaping my ass and washing my face.

I always end up always staring intently at the wall and dressing/showering as efficiently as possible in order to get the hell out of there.

The last thing on my mind would be to hit on another woman in communal showers, straight or otherwise. (Sorry guys.) I know from talking to gay guys that their “shower experience” is usually pretty similar. I have never heard a single guy describe an incident in which he propositioned some random straight guy or tried to “turn” a straight.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Drop The Soap sounds like a new game right up there with Ball Showing.

Gotta love shenanigans!
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Maverick:
“soaping my ass and washing my face”
You might want to change the order lol
Couldn’t resist
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Serving with gays under DADT in situations like the shower we had plausible deniabilty. Combat Arms is notorious for gay play. We trick eachother in to looking at our junk, slap eachother on the ass and say good game, play grab ass games. Its pretty gay. But it builds bonds and we know that we are all good as long as we stay in those bonds because its a joke. There is even a game to see who can act the most gay without actually crossing the line and whoever freaks first is the loser. I don’t know how it started but it really does establish cohesion. Combat arms loves not having to worry about being PC or that someone’s feelings are going to get hurt, we are all men and we all know if we get butt hurt we’ll drink water and take it like a man. With the introduction of open gay men, it tears that away. We now have legitimate reprisal for our non-PC traditions. Someone is going to get their feelings hurt.

From the Recruiting perspective since I’m currently detailed as one, we’ll have to treat our male applicants like female applicants and women recruiters vice versa. We can’t be alone with any soldier or recruit because they could be gay and accuse of us of improper conduct. Just makes life more difficult. I know as a young soldier I just enjoyed bitching. In truth, that’s all that’s going on. For all their bitching they know there is nothing they can do.

As for the men in dresses and the other similar and ridiculous comments. The military has a professional dress code and until that changes, all service members regardless of orientation will be held to the standard for their gender or face UCMJ action.

On the positive side, maybe the Army will change the Regs so I can grow my hair longer?

Well Maverick, debate used to be a gentleman’s sport until the lawyers corrupted it. Uncivility goes in the face of the Army Value of Respect.
http://www.army.mil/values/

I wish I could convey what I term as masculine traits… its just something that I understand on a deep level that escapes my ability to quantify it. My spiritual beliefs are much the same way. Its similar to how you can’t really explain color to a person born blind.

Eventually I plan to write a book, so when I finally figure it out it will be in there. I also plan to run for President so we’ll see which happens first.

I used to have extreme views but my spirituality has tempered me, making me stronger. I was Anti-Life and Anti-Christian for a while… I still make jokes about it because I like to make absolutely shocking statements just to see how people react.

I get accused of being gay all the time. I like mesh shirts and vinyl pants. I don’t gawk at women. I don’t know shit about cars. And I hate football. I just want to be me without someone trying to put me in a box so that they can understand me, because I know they never will.

My apologies but I tend to wax philosophical.

If you feel like taking this off the website, my throwaway email is nameless_anomoly@yahoo.
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:43 pm
That whole “turn the straight” gets on my nerves too. In my single days, even if I thought a “straight” girl was cute I would never come on to them. I know how awkward the situation is when a guy is persistent at trying to pick me up in a bar (even though I am flattered). I would not want to give someone unwanted advances, but in my life time, I have been picked up on by so many “straight” girls.

I mentioned my brother was a marine. When he was still serving, I took him and his then GF to a total flaming bar on Halloween and being it was their own territory so many of them tried to buy him drinks and get his number. He let them buy the drinks, said he was straight and took it as a compliment. He even played along when his GF wanted to see him on the dance floor between two drags, dancing (well he can’t dance, he is white and straight) but he did his best, arms up with his beer in hand.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:47 pm
“Combat Arms is notorious for gay play. We trick eachother in to looking at our junk, slap eachother on the ass and say good game, play grab ass games. Its pretty gay. But it builds bonds and we know that we are all good as long as we stay in those bonds because its a joke. There is even a game to see who can act the most gay without actually crossing the line and whoever freaks first is the loser. I don’t know how it started but it really does establish cohesion. Combat arms loves not having to worry about being PC or that someone’s feelings are going to get hurt, we are all men and we all know if we get butt hurt we’ll drink water and take it like a man. With the introduction of open gay men, it tears that away. We now have legitimate reprisal for our non-PC traditions. Someone is going to get their feelings hurt. ”

^ Okay, so when did gays get the reputation for being assholes who can’t take a joke? Because last I heard the queers were stereotyped as being witty and off-color…if us not being able to handle off-color jokes is a major concern, I think that concern can be pretty easily put to rest just by the test of time.

Sure, there might be a few gay folks who get riled, but fuck ‘em if they can’t take a joke. (Most of them can.) Let me be very clear, there is a huge difference between “gay games” [which I don't think counts as harassing behavior] and people who, I dunno, want to reinstate the death penalty for gays due to their religious beliefs.

It’s just funny to me that straight guys feel like they won’t be able to fully appreciate their homoerotic games anymore if actual homosexuals are around. Frankly, we think grab ass is just as funny as you straights do, if not more so. What do you think drag is? It’s one big theatrical game of grab ass.

Most of the openly gay men I know are able to joke and “gay play” with their straight friends without crossing any boundaries.

We’re able to take play for what it is. The big question is, can straight guys handle pretending to be gay around actual gay guys?

I’m sure the ones who are secure in their masculinity will be able to carry on the hilarity unabated.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Have to admit, when I first thought of DADT repeal as a “game-changer,” this isn’t exactly what I had in mind.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
“Maverick:
“soaping my ass and washing my face”
You might want to change the order lol
Couldn’t resist”

^ lmao
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Its just like how we are taught to not swear around female service members even though I know they swear just as much as me. I’m always being told to watch my mouth when women are around… well, not while recruiting. Civilians are a bunch of censoring whine-asses.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
“Its just like how we are taught to not swear around female service members even though I know they swear just as much as me. I’m always being told to watch my mouth when women are around… well, not while recruiting. Civilians are a bunch of censoring whine-asses.”

^ This is true.

However, I do feel like in the case of gay people, there is a grain of really ugly discrimination there that does need to be addressed formally.

It goes a lot farther than talk behind your back and dirty looks on the street. I’ve actually been denied service in a store before for appearing “visibly gay”…(whatever the fuck that means? I was wearing jeans and a sweater?). I’ve had a group of teenage guys follow me in their car cursing and riding my bumper – they followed me for awhile and I started to wonder what I would do if I had to stop and get out of the car to deal with them. Four on one.

You gotta take into consideration that it’s not exactly like I’m riding around with a giant rainbow sticker on my car or anything. I’m just going about my day.
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
I do think that is the big question “can straight guys handle pretending to be gay around actual gay guys?” Mav, you word things so well. They won’t have that plausible deniability anymore. I see it. I think it’s lame, but I see it. I also think because the certain guys are not so secure they just have to cry out that the gay guy that was playing all along in the closet is now out and must be getting his rocks off. It’s really the insecure soldier’s issue not the gay soldier.

I watched a lot of jack ass with my son. I see those guys and their games and its obvious some are straight and some not so much but they are all just pals doing retarded shit for that whole bond thing. I don’t get it but I’m not a guy.

My son also after seeing that movie “waiting” was always doing that goat game or whatever. When him and his friends are over, my wife and I hide upstairs because that shits so gay. I tell them so too. But I know it is not gay, its actually a guys straight thing I just dont get. I did have to tell my son, I dont want to play that game, I have no desire to walk around the corner and see your junk. I don’t have the need to bond with you that way lmao.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
I actually think it would add an entertaining new variable to the “gay games” of straight men to have actual gays present. Heh.

I mean, who better to judge the gayest straight guy in the room than the gay guy?
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:32 pm
I see the discrimination. I have gone through my more butch stages when I was younger and have been called sir when I was pregnant with my son, because with my hair all chopped off I look like my brothers.

I will say I see it more when a butch is part of the couple. My wife and I really don’t see too much of it because we are I guess more fem then butch in appearances. She is and I guess I am standing still lol. Walking around and talking, I’m quite a tom boy. But I think that is more because I was raised with 3 brothers and she has a sister. That said she takes my dyke card away every time something around the house needs to be fixed, and I’d be more scared of her in a fight then me. My friends however can go to the same places we do and because one is more butch, they will get all kinds of shit. We only see it on rare ocassions and the person is usually drunk.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Gay/Straight Relations 101: PC Uses of the Phrase “No Homo”

1) As a non-threatening compliment (usually concerning physical beauty) made towards the same sex. [Ex. Man, Paul's ass looks really good in those jeans, no homo.]

2) As a response to the question of one’s sexual orientation. [Ex. "Are you straight?" "No, homo."]

3) And in the rarest of all cases, when receiving an unwanted sexual advance and responding negatively. [*flirty bambi eyes from androgynous coworker* <_< "No homo." ...-_-']
wth Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
lol, I hear my son and his friends with that no homo shit all the time
Tankman Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Its also a male past time to insult one another as a sign of friendship. Hence why you say no homo if giving a dude a compliment.

Sort of like in the movie Orgasmo.
“I don’t want to sound like a queer or anything but I think Unicorns are badass.”

“It’s just hard to converse respectfully from people who have you pegged as a “perverse degenerate” right out of the gate, without even taking two seconds to get to know you as a human being first.”
You keep bringing up pegging.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Well, since the current laws are pretty much literally fucking us over, pegging is probably a pretty good analogy.

I think unicorns are badass, and I don’t care if it makes me sound like a queer or not. =)
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Orgasmo is an awesome flick. I saw a girl at a party once dressed like him and it was the best Halloween costume I’ve ever seen in my life.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Will Officers like former Congressman Eric Massa (Naval Officer needless to say) be allowed to date cute sailors now, just like he dated cute interns from Barney Franks office?
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:14 pm
I guess now all the cute sailors can date anyone they’d like. Anyone up for a game of super-gay beach volleyball?
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
Hey Maverick, Mike Mullen will go for that!!!! Wonder what combat veterans like Generals Mundy & Krulak think about it?
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
Uh, JNWarren, the rules against fraternization are still in effect whether they involve opposite sex or same sex involvement. Not sure if the UCMJ allows exception for “cute” sailors though!
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Couldn’t care less. They can suck it up like everybody else as far as I’m concerned.

Sit back and watch the non-event.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Uh, JDL, so does that mean that Commander Massa can only date ensigns? Just wondering. When he brings a dude to the Marine Corps Ball, does everybody need to respect that and pretend it’s normal?
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
“When he brings a dude to the Marine Corps Ball, does everybody need to respect that and pretend it’s normal?”

^ They can say whatever they’d like, but they can’t stop the homosexual couple from being equal to them and normal like them.

We’re not going to be pushed to the fringes of society anymore. It’s stupid. We’re no different than straight people. It’s like something out of a damned Dr. Seuss book:

Now the Star-bellied Sneetches had bellies with stars.
The Plain-bellied Sneetches had none upon thars.
The stars weren’t so big; they were really quite small.
You would think such a thing wouldn’t matter at all.
But because they had stars, all the Star-bellied Sneetches
would brag, “We’re the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches.”
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they’d snort, ”
We’ll have nothing to do with the plain-bellied sort.”
And whenever they met some, when they were out walking,
they’d hike right on past them without even talking.
When the Star-bellied children went out to play ball,
could the Plain-bellies join in their game? Not at all!
You could only play ball if your bellies had stars,
and the Plain-bellied children had none upon thars.
When the Star-bellied Sneetches had frankfurter roasts,
or picnics or parties or marshmallow toasts,
they never invited the Plain-bellied Sneetches.
Left them out cold in the dark of the beaches.
Kept them away; never let them come near,
and that’s how they treated them year after year.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
Nobody needs to do anything other than be professional. You’re opposed to open gays in the military. We get it. No one has to change their view. The first amendment is still in effect even, to some degree, within the military. You don’t have to “respect” or “pretend.” You just can’t harass, threaten and drum them out anymore. Hate all you want and blog all you want but you no longer have the law or the majority of the American people (or military) behind you.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:33 pm
*No one
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Well that’s good JDL, then Obama should be elected in a landslide, champion of sodomy that he is. Do you have his bumper sticker on your car?
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
…and we’re one executive order from being able to drum them out; all that’s necessary is somebody with the foresight and common sense of a Ronald Reagan and we’re there.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
I won’t push my homosexuality in your face if you don’t push your heterosexuality in mine.

How about we just establish an air of mutual respect, if not for the content of one’s character, than the fact that that person is standing beside you in the same uniform as you. They have gone through exactly the same things that you have. They have not imposed on you before, and they will not impose on you now.

That’s all I ask, personally. Just leave us alone. Say whatever you’d like amongst yourselves, but don’t bully people. It’s childish. And in the military, it’s dangerous too.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
Ronald Reagan’s presidency simply coincided with the policy banning homosexuals written in the forties. No executive order can over turn dadt repeal. That’s why Obama pushed it through legislatively and it carried almost 2/3rd’s of the Senate. It’s now immune to executive order. And if the next Congress overturns it and they have a sympathetic president, the courts will stop it. Every damn appeal made by dadt sympathizers has been lost. It’s over. So get over it.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Nope, no Obama sticker on my car. Why do you have an extra one?
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
“No executive order can over turn dadt repeal. ”

Nonsense. Reagan signed the executive order as a matter of policy, just as he ended the effort toward implementing the metric system, etc.

“President Perry” could sign an executive order with the exact same wording as Reagan’s EO, and it would have the same effect. Whoever tells you it is immune to EO is uninformed (or lying).

Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts and Kennedy can probably be counted on to uphold the military’s ability to maintain good order and discipline.
Kyle Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 9:56 pm
I love how one person said that gays are going to destroy the Corps. If you think that then you have ZERO faith in any Marine leader gay or strait. One usually does not join our branch for college money or benefits. They join because they want to be a Marine. At either of the MCRD’s or OCS I don’t think they will have classes to bring down the Corps. The pride will still be there. If you don’t like the history of the USMC then beat feet and get your ass out. This goes to EVERY MARINE. Also by shared adversary we all come together. We all went through hell and most Marines deploy and more shared adversary is had. Gay men, gay women, and strait people will become brothers and sisters just as has happened in the past. The Corps will live on.

I do have worries about the repeal though. I am a Platoon Sergeant at our school house and there are some things I have questions about. I am worried about false sexual harassment claims by Marines because their roommate is gay and they don’t want to live with them. I am worried about that one bad seed that will sexual harass a Marine. I know not all gay people will do this but there will always be one and I don’t want one person giving all a bad name. I am worried about unit cohesion and the Marines not wanting to work together because one is gay.

Now these are my worries but as I said in the first paragraph that we are Marines and we will ADAPT and OVERCOME. We will all have the attitude of fuck it get the job done. We are Marines and thats what we do.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
” I am worried about false sexual harassment claims by Marines because their roommate is gay and they don’t want to live with them”

Would you object to a female Marine not wanting to bunk with a male Marine?
Dd214-fuk-yea Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Well thats gay. Glad I’m out
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Better look at Kennedy’s decisions JNWarren. Google Romer v. Evans. Think Kennedy will support, think again.
Sgt 1833 Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
So does this mean I can shower with WM’s and have them as room mates? I promise I don’t want to sleep with them
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
He may or may not; Roberts has been pretty good at persuading him to do the right thing. It would be a question of letting the military maintain good order and discipline.

Again, Reagan had the right idea. I’m hoping the Obama Administration (probably in the guise of the Department of the Navy) moves to have the Boy Scouts kicked off base. That would be the next logical step; hopefully (from my point of view) they’ll be true to their ideology and push it.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
We know you’re gay for Reagan, we get it.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
I must clarify my post 584 and give JNWarren some “hope.” DADT was simply repealed. It does not prevent an attempt at re-implementing discrimination. JNWarren is correct that the next president could (possibly) sign an EO. The odds of that are very slim but it could happen. If it does, there will probably be an immediate injunction with a fight to the Supreme Court. One reason why the Legislative route may not have been the best route here. Time will tell.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
I have to admit he was one dashing son of a bitch.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
JNWarren, please cite the EO Reagan signed re: gays in the military.
Kyle Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
JNWarren-

Due to our SOP’s and MCO’s Male Marines will live with male Marines and females like wise. So your question can never happen. But to humor you here we go.

If it were a requirement that male and females be roomed together and I was approached by EITHER sex asking if they could switch rooms I would ask why. If it was because they did not like the person, they were dirty or smelled, if they are loud and stupid my answer would be not only no but FUCK NO. If you want to be a Marine you have to learn that there are times where you do shit because it builds character.

Now if there was a no shit real complaint like sexual harassment then yes I would look into it. I then with the help of SNCO’s and my SEA we would make a determination.

Case in point, I had a student who is black and he was called a N*****. Looks horrible right? Oh wait my student was not all peachy clean either. We made the two students work together because they may have to share a fighting hole one day. We had no other incidents between the two.

This is not a black and white problem. There are gray areas and you have to trust that NCO’s and SNCO’s will do whats right for the good of the Marine and the good of the Corps.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:16 pm
“We know you’re gay for Reagan, we get it.”

No I remember what a terrific leader he was, what a patriot and how his focus on strengthening our military and defeating our enemies was so very effective. What a contrast to the curent occupant he is.

But since you do have your man (or at least male) in office, why not go all out and get the Boy Scouts kicked off base?
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
“But since you do have your man (or at least male) in office, why not go all out and get the Boy Scouts kicked off base?”

^ What the hell is your obsession with the Boy Scouts, of all things?

Maybe *you’re* the one we need to be watching around the little kids, mate.

As far as I’m concerned, let the Boy Scouts keep gays out – that’s a Supreme court win for another day.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:20 pm
“Due to our SOP’s and MCO’s Male Marines will live with male Marines and females like wise”

Why? If sexual attraction doesn’t matter, why segregate the sexes at all? Shouldn’t those rules be modified as well?

I mean colleges are beginning to room men & women together, and their policies on homosexuals were used as evidence that the DoD needed to change.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
“As far as I’m concerned, let the Boy Scouts keep gays out – that’s a Supreme court win for another day.”

You bet it is, for the likes of you and Barak Hussein anyway. Let’s hope he doesn’t replace any more USSC Judges.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Kyle-

Very impressive responses.

Thank you for your service, Sergeant!

Makes me feel even better about the Corps, and the military in general, knowing folks like you and Mav are there!
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:26 pm
Wow, pretty disrespectful of our Commander in Chief.

I’ll just repeat something that was said much earlier in this forum: U Signed The Motherfuckin Contract. Don’t want to fulfill your end of the bargain? That’s your problem, not ours.

The deal is done. Don’t like it? There’s the door.
Kyle Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
JNWarren,

You deliberately ask a question to try to get me to answer and use my answer to support your cause. How very political of you. Male and females are not roomed together because we do not need female Marines getting pregnant and having to be removed from MOS training. We also do not need to have the spread of STDs running around. If Marines want to sleep with each other that will be on their own time in a hotel or house but not in the Barracks. This is where we protect the Corps and the Marine. Most Marines with heed the rule and not get a hotel due to costs. Also the USMC can not be looked at in a bad light when women get pregnant and STD’s get passed around like hot cakes.

So if sexual attraction is not a matter why not room them together? Because its a FUCKING ORDER and not one by a random SNCO but by the CMC.
JNWarren Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
“Also the USMC can not be looked at in a bad light when women get pregnant and STD’s get passed around like hot cakes. ”

You make an excellent point here, and it applies to all services. It would be interesting to have statistics on this type of thing readily available to the public. Rates of pregnancy, std’s, complete percentage analyses of who doesn’t complete their first terms of service, why they don’t, etc.

My prediction is that we will see the Boy Scouts thrown out of Fort Bragg, Little Creek and everywhere else before these statistics are collected.
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
“My prediction is that we will see the Boy Scouts thrown out of Fort Bragg, Little Creek and everywhere else before these statistics are collected.”

^ Did you have some kind of bad summer camp experience or something?
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:45 pm
Gay=sick
Gays need to be in mental hospitals not in the USMC
Maverick Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:47 pm
Your argument is so thought-provoking.
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
Definition of Gay Rights

Give special privledges to the most demented 2% of your population.
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:55 pm
Dewey,
Welcome back!
Hope you saw my post #548!
You add such depth the discussion!
Can’t wait for your next comment.
I’m sure it’ll be … predictable!
jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 11:03 pm
^ to

In response to your post 541
GrumpyVet Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:41 am
@JNWarren

Interesting that you should bring checks and Reagan to the table. Hmm.

Had you actually paid attention to my posts you would know I care little for politics. The Marine Corps is still the Marine Corps.

That being said, Religion and politics are reserved for the politicians and religious right and left wings. Your average 0311 doesn’t have a high regard for either.

The next care package and making it back to the FOB or OP are much more important than a fellow grunt’s sexuality or his political views.

As for me issuing checks. Not likely. I’m a 70% service connected Disabled Veteran and have only been out of the service for 3 years.

On the what the VA pays me I am not issuing a check to anyone for their political or religious junk. Congress thinks it is ok to have Comp and Disability rates at poverty level. Why the HELL would I ever cut a check to a candidate? I can barely make due with what the VA gives me to live on each month.

And Religion???? JN, Let me tell you something. I stopped giving a F*** about religion half way through my last tour over the wire in Iraq. I knew Marines that were both gay and Straight. It didn’t matter. No one was safe, and guess what JN… Those white stones in Arlington that I go visit once a year. There are both Gay and Straight Marines and Corpsmen buried under them.

So Tell me. really. Why the hell Do you think I give one single flipping thought for either Politics or Religion?

Politicians and Religous nuts have one really good thing in common: 99.99% of them will never and have never worn the uniform or rendered the final salute for a fallen brother.

You guys want to argue over this DaDT crap go ahead. Feel the need to argue over your “religious views” go ahead.

But do myself, every other disabled combat veteran and those who rest in Section 60 and elsewhere a favor.

Get over yourselves.

In the end, the United States Marine Corps is and always will be the United States Marine Corps.

You get better coffee in an MRE than in the VA waiting room.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:10 am
^ QFT, Grumpy.

The fact that guys are jumping all over this issue and threatening their fellow gay and lesbian Marines with things like “stray bullets” while the military collective is scrabbling to free two separate countries from brutal religious theocracies is fucking appalling.

Because if you’re so distracted by my gay ass in combat that it’s all you can think about, driving the mission from your mind, obsessing over shit like Boy Scouts and what goes on behind closed doors, then I don’t want you watching my ass at all. Because you’re a lot more obsessed with gay sex than I am.

If you think gays are “demented” and “perverted” and whatever-the-hell-else you people *think* you know about gays, you’ve got some loose bolts rolling around up there, and I need someone who is screwed together right to sit in a foxhole with me.

Do all of us a favor and ring the bell.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:21 am
@Maverick,

Not quite sure what QFT is, however I agree. And Bravo Zulu on the “Ring the bell” item. Haven’t heard that in years.

You know, the funny thing about it all Maverick? I bet if you slapped a pile of HREC (medical Records) from any BN down in front of these guys and asked them to separate the Gay and Straight records… They couldn’t do it. LOL.

And for the ones threatening PMJ towards their fellow Marines….

Ring that bell loud and hard, Then come find me or another Disabled Vet and we’ll give you an education over a cup of crappy VA coffee.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:24 am
QFT = Quoted For Truth. =)
GrumpyVet Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:27 am
So that is what it means. Thank you. Always nice to learn a new acronym. And here I was happy with the idea of not having to learn any new ones. lol
JNWarren Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:40 am
“As for me issuing checks. Not likely. I’m a 70% service connected Disabled Veteran and have only been out of the service for 3 years.”

Interesting. I was contributing out of lawn mower money because at 13 years of age it was clear to me Reagan was a far better leader than Ford; four years leader it was even clearer Reagan was the answer to the inept, dismal leadership of Jimmy Carter.

It’s your choice to remain on the sidelines as regards civic involvement. I always assumed civic and military (1980 to 2009 in my case) went hand in hand. Maybe you ought to run if you think there is such a dearth of qualifed candidates.

I think that Congressman Duncan Hunter (google up his combat background) sets the standard on this issue (among others).
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:44 am
“Interesting. I was contributing out of lawn mower money because at 13 years of age it was clear to me Reagan was a far better leader than Ford; four years leader it was even clearer Reagan was the answer to the inept, dismal leadership of Jimmy Carter.”

^ *lolz*
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:50 am
“Maybe you ought to run if you think there is such a dearth of qualifed candidates.”

^ Maybe YOU should run, since you consider yourself so politically involved and DADT repeal chaps your ass so bad.

Hehe…ass-chaps.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:06 am
@JN

It is refreshing to know that there will always be individuals available that don’t understand how to keep on topic.

As for the lack of (or dearth) of qualified candidates… The topic of this specific forum does not speak to that regard.

Your opinions as to politicians running for office does have a place, albeit, in another forum.

It is obvious that you read selectively before formulating your response. It is also commendable of you to present the specifics of your political beliefs to readers of this specific forum.

However, please stop acting like a boot, butterbar, or Senator on a field-trip review of a FOB. You have proven to have a knack for introducing material into the forum, which quite frankly, (while vaguely interesting) at times is amusing and others misplaced.

If you are going to post on this forum, by all means grant the favor of addressing the topic at hand. That or Ring the bell.
Eric Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:52 am
JUST FACE THE FACTS ALL YOU SELF CENTERED HOMOPHOBES. WE ARE OUT THERE AND WE WILL STAY.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:27 am
I just find it laughable it was ever a question to begin with. I think homophobia is all wrapped up in some kind of paranoid narcissism.

Like gay soldiers couldn’t possibly be there to serve their country. It’s gotta be because they just want the opportunity to stare at military ass in the shower two minutes at a time in some desert shithole.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:28 am
THAT makes sense.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:11 am
People who have a problem with gays don’t want us to do normal things, like fight in the military or take our kids to daycare or grocery shop. Because when society starts to realize we’re just like them, the boogeyman story doesn’t work anymore.

And if they’ve been lied to about gay people, what else have they been lied to about?
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 10:41 am
Countries that allow gays to serve openly:

Albania
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Bahamas
Belgium
Bermuda
Canada
Republic of China
Colombia
Croatia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Republic of Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Thailand
United Kingdom

^ Let’s join the rest of the free world, shall we?
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:12 am
“Because when society starts to realize we’re just like them, the boogeyman story doesn’t work anymore.”

Exactly, and it’s being reflected in the polls at an astonishing rate.

Gays are no longer (never were) “them.” They are “us.”

Hence the importance of gays “coming out” to the extent they feel comfortable. No, not waving a flag or screaming “we’re here …” (not that there’s anything wrong with that!) Just living an open honest life with those around them is changing hearts and minds.

It’s amazing how many “straight” folks really don’t care and are very supportive.

It’s the neanderthals like JNWarren, Dewey AZ, et. al. who have become “them.” As I alluded to earlier, only embalming fluid will cure their bigotry. Yeah, they’re fun to spar with, but only for the benefit of the wider audience.

The majority of Americans truly don’t care … live and let live!
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:15 am
Amen to that.
SGT Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 1:54 pm
Hmmm, I thought I was married to woman for 7 years.Because of this cover, I better go to my SPAC and check my record. Then I better go check my wife’s genitals for a hidden weener?
Otherwise, why does this cover depict all Marine men as sodomizing Man Lovers.

P.S. Hey Chaplain who says according to GOD it doesn’t matter who you love,
Go read your SOP (The Holy Bible) and see Romans 1:18-32.
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
SGT-

Hmmmm married for seven years and you haven’t checked her genitals?

She must be your beard.

Thump that Bible bro!
SGT Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
We have two kids. I think I’ve checked.
Homosexuallity, over it. What’s next phedophilia? Then what?
SGT Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Jdl-
Sorry for the harshness of my first post. I should’ve referred to homosexuals as GAYS instead of the term I used. I was speaking out of shock and suprise of this cover as I felt it classified my preference as different than what it is. Which is offensive to me. I did not have a calm head when I spoke, which was wrong of me to use that term. Yet, spiritually I do not agree with what is going on. I don’t want to be mean though.
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Not sure what “phedophilia” is … but I’ll assume you mean pedophilia.

Illogical progression. But it appears you’re equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

Check crime stats (FBI, et. al.) The vast majority of pedophilia crimes are committed by heterosexual males usually against female family members.

Care to challenge me on that with some documentation? Please, spare me the Bible passages and cite some real world data.

I/we get it. You think homosexuality is an abomination. You have a right to hold / express that view. After next Tuesday, however, you won’t have the right harass, threaten, spy on and drum out subordinates who happen to be gay.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
“I was speaking out of shock and suprise of this cover as I felt it classified my preference as different than what it is. Which is offensive to me.”

^ Do people honestly think this from this cover? I find that kind of hard to believe. If you read the subtitles, it’s pretty clear exactly who they’re talking about.

“Yet, spiritually I do not agree with what is going on.”

^ Spiritually, I do. Because nothing says “love thy neighbor” more than letting thy neighbor hold the same civil rights as you, and treating him with affection and tolerance regardless of your personal views about what he does in the privacy of his own bedroom.

The whole “homosexuality now, pedophilia/bestiality next!” argument is just dumb. When is the last time you saw a bestiality lobby in Washington?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

Homosexuality is NOTHING like pedophilia or bestiality. It is romantic and sexual CONSENSUAL acts between two adults of the same gender. That’s it.

Pedophilia and bestiality are NON-CONSENSUAL SEX ACTS.

Can you understand the difference?
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:12 pm
SGT-

I’m sorry for the harsh tone of my post as well. It was inappropriate of me to question your preference. Reality is, I don’t care (nor should you).

I respect your first amendment right to hold / express a view that may be 180 degrees different than mine.

I cannot ever imagine anyone with a brain inferring that everyone in the Corps is gay because of this magazine cover.

The reality is, gay/straight/whatever, the men (and women) of the Corps are the baddest mother fu*king fighting machine on the planet! This cover won’t do anything to change that perception/fact.

We all just need to be professional and work together despite holding disparate views.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
“Go read your SOP (The Holy Bible) and see Romans 1:18-32.”

^ There are people of many different religions that serve in the armed forces of the United States.

You do not have the right to impose your religion upon others. It’s against the ideals of this nation.

It’s also against the ideals of the Bible, as far as that goes. I think you need to spend some time in Matthew:

“You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.”
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Matthew Shepard? Larry King? Those are modern day crucifixions.
Tankman Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Hey Maverick,

This kind of explains what I was trying to say.

http://takimag.com/article/never_trust_anyone_who_hasnt_been_punched_in_the_face/print#axzz1YF8jU3TQ
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
^ Nice article, very interesting. I agree in theory – when I heard about the “It Gets Better” campaign in response to gay youth suicides, part of me was really saddened because I could relate to how bad it is for gay kids in high school.

However, part of me also thought, “Yeah, it does get better. In the meantime, learn to fight like you’re living the Shawshank Redemption. Don’t just roll over and give up! You’re queers! You’re the historical descendants of fucking Sparta for God’s sake!! Get in there and whip some bully ass!”

The only problem with this is, bullies don’t want to fight fair. They don’t want to go one on one. They want to jump you from behind, with a pack of their friends.

It’s pathetic really.
Tankman Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
http://www.jimgoad.net/pdf/violence/lingeringeffects.pdf
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Now that the queers can serve openly, they’ll be able to find “battle buddies” and form some supportive packs of their own.

If we’re gonna rumble this out, for better or worse, it should at least be on equal terms.
Tankman Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Verily.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Nice story Tank. I can definitely relate to it.

The best advice I can give the queers at this point:

Stand your fucking ground.
MrsRoo07 Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
You’re here, you’re queer, and I DON’T CARE!

Seriously, the reason I will be boycotting the Marine Corps Times is because if straight, white people ran anything that could even be misconstrued as being offensive, someone’s head would be on a platter. It’s hypocritical, and unnecessarily divisive.

True equality will come when white/Christian guilt stops. People should be recruited or promoted based on merit, not their color, creed, sex, or sexuality. I’m tired of apologizing when I have never cared when others do with their lives, only what my family holds as values and what I will be teaching my children. Do what you will with your life, and I will do what I will with mine.

So, if you’re gay and I must get over it (which again, I never cared in the first place)… I’m Catholic, get over it.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
Pretty sure we’ve just been saying, “You’re free to practice your beliefs, just don’t intimidate or hurt anyone.” I like Catholics. I think it’s a cool religion.

So we’re pretty much on the same page. If you’re one of the people who doesn’t care if gays serve openly or not, we’re not talking to you.
MrsRoo07 Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Maverick- I was simply speaking to the cover and why I (as well as some of my friends) found it offensive and is the reason we will not be buying the Marine Corps Times in the future.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
But there is a spectrum of responses to DADT repeal, ranging from, “SO FUCKING WHAT!” to “Kill all the queers!”

So we’re trying to have some sort of open forum with the the “Kill all the queers!” crowd, and answer their fears and questions and insults, because we’ve never been allowed to before.

Because honestly, I’ve never done anything in my life to earn the hatred that some people have of me, just because of my sexuality. I mean, I stop to move turtles out of the road and stupid geeky shit like that.

So if you don’t care, great! That’s the best I can hope for.

If you do care, I want to know why.
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:03 pm
Over one cover?

Well, consumer’s choice I guess. I found the cover tasteless as well, as far as that goes.
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Some of my best friends are Catholic!
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
lol
AAV Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:44 pm
A phobia is generally something one is afraid of……homophobe would note that one is afraid of homosexuals.

Rather, disgusting is the correct term as it makes one want to vomit. Hence, homodisgustis…..they make me want to vomit.
AAV Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:47 pm
Also…..since gay’s will be able to shower with non-gays….when can I shower with WM’s?
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
What the hell, I’m a butch lesbian, I’ll shower with the guys.

Just put gay guys with the women and gay women with the men. =)

(kidding)
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 6:59 pm
As for homodisgustis…get over it.
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
AAV -

The gays are already showering with you. What? You think you can tell? Think again. Believe me, they’re not checking you out!

Idiot
Maverick Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
You’d be surprised to learn that many homosexuals consider heterosexual sex repulsive as well.
John Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
I am glad I no longer serve.
I would not want my corpsman putting his hands on me after putting his hands inside the bloody bodies of my fellow Marines. All doctors and dentists are homophobic! Hiv/aids is only aquired from homosexual contact, direct or indirect.
Semper Fi
Tankman Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Mav, you move turtles out of the road?! What kind sick pervert are you!?

lolz
USMC1944 Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
I don’t get why this is such a big deal. Just look around, Marines have been fighting along members of the German, British, French, Italian, etc. Armed Forces. The United States was the LAST country left in the developed world to not officially allow gays to serve. How’s that for being backward? The UK repealed the law forbidding gays to serve about 10 years ago and that was the only country left besides the U.S.

Just the fact that so many Arabic linguists were discharged under DADT (possibly leading to direct and indirect deaths of Marines and Soldiers) should be food for thought.

It’s the 21st century guys, seriously… get over it. 10 years from now people will laugh that DADT even existed.
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:40 pm
John,

I, too, am glad you no longer serve.

Does ignorance hurt?

Wow! They allowed you to carry a gun?
jdl Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 9:54 pm
USMC1944 (post #658)

Amen to that, brother! Well said!
GrumpyVet Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
@John,

“I am glad I no longer serve.
I would not want my corpsman putting his hands on me after putting his hands inside the bloody bodies of my fellow Marines. All doctors and dentists are homophobic! Hiv/aids is only aquired from homosexual contact, direct or indirect.
Semper Fi”

As a health care provider I hate to be the one to burst your bubble John. HIV/AIDS is not aquired exclusively from Homosexual contact “Direct or Indirect”.

The very nerve of your blatant ignorance in the matter of how HIV is transmitted is astounding. As I review Epidemiological reports on a weekly basis; let me be the first to tell you that HIV is not exclusive to sexual congress between two gay men or women. HIV does not care if you are Straight or Homosexual. It does not care if you are man or woman or child.

It may even suprise you to know that thousands of children are born with HIV every year; and that it impacts the Straight community just as harshly as the homosexual community.

Ignorance is not an excuse, and is not something myself or any other Provider will accept nor tolerate. And I can and will vouch for the rest of the health care community when I say that you are dead WRONG in your assumption that all Doctors and Dentists are homophobes. I personally don’t care about a patient’s sexual preference when I am redering assistance or medical care. I never have.

And as for a Doc putting their bloody hands on you after treating a fellow Marine. Let me be the first to tell you in no uncertain terms.

As per the Hospital Corps Pledge: “I will not knowingly permit harm to come to any patient…. I dedicate my heart, mind, and strength to the work before me.” That oath is engraved upon the heart of EVERY single Corpsman to ever serve in the FMF billet.

So as you can see, either on or off the battlefield, the reason any Doc will run through bombed out craters and stand before the gates of heaven is because when the Hospital Corps Pledge is taken, it is for LIFE. A Doc (or Corpsman as you coined it) will always put a fellow Marine’s life before his own hands down. There is no question about the sexuality of a fellow Marine or Doc ever involved. What matters is the mission at hand and that most sacred trust which is the very lives of our Marines.

So before you ever think to attempt to bring Disgrace or dishonor upon the word Corpsman again back the hell up and shut up. Quite a few of us have died and been injured trying to save the life of a fellow Marine. And not one of us ever cared about the sexuality of our Marines.

Where Angels and Marines fear to tread there you will find a Corpsman barring the hand of Death itself.

John, I forgive your ignorance, but I will never condone ignorance from anyone.
SGT Chaffin Says:
September 17th, 2011 at 11:52 pm
All of this is completely disgraceful, humiliating to my Corps, nauseating and an embarrassment to each person they serve with. I can’t wait for the first homo to hit on a straight Marine and get his shit split wide open. You will not only see this Marine get ran up but he/she will be a hero to many. This will be a catastrophic down fall to our military. You will find that our Armed Forces will be split, gays on one side and straights on another. They will not trust each other nor fight together; it will be a literal civil war among the ranks. If the homos want to join the military open a new branch and they can wear their rainbow cammies and sodomize the enemy to death!
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:14 am
GrumpyVet (re post #661)

All I can say is “wow” and thank you!

I’m sure “John” won’t read but your words will reach (and hopefully have an effect on) many others!
JPn Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:17 am
All I want to know is… Are they going to have a Pen15 Club instead of an E-Club? And if yes, do you have to be gay to get in or do I just get a Pen15 T-shirt (that I’ll have to tuck-in).
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 1:40 am
SGT Chaffin (re post #662)

Are you seriously operating under the assumption that “homos” are not currently in the Marine Corps???

They are serving right next to you NOW and they’re every bit as bad ass as you make yourself out to be. Remember that when you threaten to “split their shit wide open.”

The only thing that will change after Tuesday is that gay service members can (if they so choose) be open about it. Some will “come out” while many others, I suspect, will not. But they no longer have to fear that their private life will be cause for discharge. Having to deal with the likes of you is another matter.

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself. You have brought dishonor upon yourself and your uniform by condoning lynch mob violence against a fellow Marine.

There’s the door “Sergeant,” please use it!
J Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:34 am
Believe it or not, that cover is embarrassing to the Marine Corps as a whole. Personal beliefs aside, it categorizes the entire force as gay. Yes, under the HUGE ass words it has an explanation…but what gets peoples attention? The big, pink word “GAY” surrounded by the uniform. Use some fucking common sense.

Finally, you would be surprised that most people just get pissed off about the FLAMBOYANCY of the gay community. Yeah, you got your homo-phobics and all, we know. Out of what percentage are those people though? That, up there? Flamboyant. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is what gets under peoples skin. If it would have just said something about DADT, the reaction would have been MUCH different. Think I’m wrong? Try me. Ask your peers. And if you cant see the flamboyancy of the front page, ask someone.

We know you are there. Quit fucking screaming it in our faces, waving flags, wearing t-shirts that say “I’m Gay.”, and crying every time someone says something about it. I’m straight, and you wont ever see me waving that in ANY of your faces, wearing a t-shirt that says “I’m straight.”, or crying because you don’t agree. There’s extremists on both sides, helping no one. Ignore them, and go on with life.

And Sgt Chaffin is talking about Unit Cohesion (he just happens to put it in the most extreme way possible), both at the unit level, and force level. And, sorry to say, but for now, personal opinions aside, hes right. This, for the time being, will affect unit cohesion. Don’t cry, ask why, whine, or anything else. Just let it be, its GOING TO HAPPEN.
SGT Chaffin Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 3:13 am
:::::Reply to Jdl (post 665):::::

Are you seriously operating under the assumption that “homos” are not currently in the Marine Corps???

>>> am not under that assumption at all. Up until now they had to keep it under wraps and use their big boy voices and keep their hand by their side and carry them self as a Marine. Now once they are out of uniform (and bet your ass, many while in uniform) will be allowed to toss that broken wing in the air and talk like a bunch of bitches. Do you honestly think a straight man wants to room with a known homo? NOPE, which is where the segregation begins. All of you bitches will have to have your own barracks room or room with one of your own.

They are serving right next to you NOW and they’re every bit as bad ass as you make yourself out to be.

>>>The ones that served next to me were not allowed to be bitches, they had to man up. Now that you will be allowed to come out that means you can use your little squirrel voice and give I wana fuck your butt eyes to anyone you see and not have to worry about getting NJP or court marshal for it.

You really ought to be ashamed of yourself.

>>> the only thing I am ashamed of is that the Govt. allowed this to happen, which is solely because people have forgotten how to voice their opinion and stand up against thing they believe is wrong.

You have brought dishonor upon yourself and your uniform by condoning lynch mob violence against a fellow Marine.

>>>I have in no way dishonored myself. To dishonor oneself is to condone things you know to be wrong and to say nothing about it. As for lynch mob violence… i didn’t say you were going to get bum rushed (I bet you like those words) by a group of marines to split your shit wide open. I said one!
SGT Chaffin Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 3:15 am
oh and Jdl

SODOMY (BUTT FUCKING) IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE MARINE CORPS SO YOUR PERSONAL LIFE WILL NOT BE AS PERSONAL AS YOU THINK IT WILL BE. YOU MIGHT WANT TO BRUSH UP ON THE UCMJ!!!!
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:18 am
Somebody call the WAHmbulance!

Suck it up Chaffin. Just because your girl doesn’t let you use the back door doesn’t mean you get to take it out on everybody.

Oh yeah, and GET OVER IT.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:20 am
“We know you are there. Quit fucking screaming it in our faces, waving flags, wearing t-shirts that say “I’m Gay.”, and crying every time someone says something about it. I’m straight, and you wont ever see me waving that in ANY of your faces, wearing a t-shirt that says “I’m straight.”, or crying because you don’t agree. ”

^ When we get equal civil rights, maybe we’ll shut the fuck up. Ever think of that?
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:27 am
Maybe when we don’t have to use our sexuality to self-identify and form supportive gangs to protect ourselves from murderous homophobic morons that want to “split our shit wide open,” we can afford to shut the fuck up.

Oh yeah, and straight people shove it in our faces ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Sometimes deliberately, as reparative therapy (which doesn’t work). But mostly through one giant cultural forcefeed. And guess what? It *still* didn’t make me straight.

I don’t know what planet you’ve been living on if you think straight people don’t shove heterosexuality in anyone’s face.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:36 am
Queers are being attacked on all fronts, and I’m afraid it’s ok with us.

In 1969, queers were continually attacked, raped, and arrested by the police of New York City. We fought back and we actually took the fucking streets from NYPD in a single night.

Don’t think we aren’t capable of doing it again.

There are a LOT more of us than you’d like to think.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:37 am
*not ok
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:51 am
Every time a heterosexual gets to say, “Me and my girlfriend went to the lake this weekend,” and a queer has to lie about their weekend to keep their job, a heterosexual is shoving it in our faces that our relationships are inferior in their eyes, and not worth mention.

Every time a heterosexual gets to say, “We’ve been married almost a year,” a queer gets to think about why their relationship of ten years is considered beneath it.

Every time a proud heterosexual parent is bragging to their friends, “Yeah, he’s a good kid,” a homosexual sixteen year-old is getting booted to the gutter like a fucking stray dog for telling the truth. No behavior. Just words. “I am a queer.” “Get the fuck out.”

These kids are barely old enough to drive, and their fathers say, “I have no son.”

And you really expect them to become anything but hookers?

Homosexuality isn’t inherently unstable. Society inflicts instability and chaos on its people.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 5:53 am
^ And the above scenario is not exaggeration. I personally know of three people who were disowned for being gay. This is not alarmism, this is on-the-ground experience.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:00 am
To borrow a sentiment:

Look, the people you are after are the people you depend on. We cook your meals. We haul your trash. We connect your calls. We drive your ambulances. WE GUARD YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP.

Do not *fuck* with us.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:13 am
We are all around you, regardless of whether you think we are or not. Not every gay is “flamboyant.” A lot of us look just like you.

And we’re starting to get really pissed off about this shit.
MGY Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:40 am
the 1stSgts/Co GYs will have to deal with this: a good point of reference is when omen were allowed on combat ships (this has nothing to do with abililty, acceptance etc) seperate berthing on ship? Seperate heads? What about seperate barracks? We currently seperate men/women due to biology & social norms-remember the logistical pain of women on ships (again, nothing to do with ability, just simple living arrangements); do we now have a seperate living/head for each of the GLBT? Explain how we solve this? Can you have gay/non-gay living together? could you have a gay male and straight female share heads? The argument “we’re already there” doesn’t hold water, because as it is ble to be out formally, them officially we will have to deal with these issues.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:50 am
“Can you have gay/non-gay living together?”

Unless there is sexual harassment (on EITHER side) I don’t see why not.

I always thought it was ridiculous to separate men and women in the military anyway. There is no room for modesty on the battlefield.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:52 am
The only reason they do (as far as I can see) is they don’t want WMs getting knocked up and put out of commission. Gay men and women really don’t have to worry about accidentally impregnating anyone.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Most countries that allow gays to serve openly do not have separate barracks. I don’t see why the United States would have to make any accommodations of the sort. If a gay soldier ends up getting roomed with someone who is uncomfortable with it, that person could probably get moved without too much trouble.

I don’t think it’s going to be that big of an issue, as most of the people of the younger two generations don’t care one way or the other (as has been emphatically stated by several people in this forum).
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 9:57 am
So, if a homosexual Gunny decides after 13 years of service that “he” now wants to get a sex change and start wearing desses…… is that considered professional? You better beleive that is around the corner.

Additionally, does this former male Gunny now turned post-op female change from male uniforms to female uniforms? And what “facilities” must this new post-op female Gunny use?

HOW WILL PISS TESTS WORK? Who’s going to be the pecker checker for post-op Gunny?

Do we need to create a new requirement for gay/lez and post-op tranny pecker checkers aside from the “normal”? (pun intended)
I’ll be getting the popcorn ready for the boobery show that’ll unfold from that one.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:05 am
“So, if a homosexual Gunny decides after 13 years of service that “he” now wants to get a sex change and start wearing desses…… is that considered professional? You better beleive that is around the corner.”

^ What business is it of yours?

If you want gays not to make their sexual orientation anyone’s business, that first requires you to STAY THE HELL OUT OF OUR BUSINESS.

“HOW WILL PISS TESTS WORK? Who’s going to be the pecker checker for post-op Gunny?”

^ Hopefully a medical professional. Again, if you can’t handle a little cootch that is different than usual, then how the hell are you going to handle bullet wounds? GTFO.

“Do we need to create a new requirement for gay/lez and post-op tranny pecker checkers aside from the “normal”? (pun intended)
I’ll be getting the popcorn ready for the boobery show that’ll unfold from that one.”

^ To this I can only say,

Unless you’ve never seen a vagina (or a dick) what the hell is the problem? We’re all big kids here, or I would like to think so, anyway.

Apparently gay and lesbian soldiers have to serve beside people with the mentality of third graders.
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Also,

Why is it that when you scroll up the nearly 700 replies here you see Maverick (who claims to be a active duty “gay” WM) sitting on this page posting replies on here through the entire work day all the way up to nearly midnight and then back on here again at 0624 the following work day?

Your MOS must REALLY be shit hot there Maverick.

Please waste more of the governments dime on you while you spend your time bolstering your “gay” views.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:07 am
Whatcha worried about, fuckin’ cooties?
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:10 am
What business is it of mine if (for example) my plantoon sgt “Gunny Joe Shmuckatellie” for the past 3 years decides June 13th he wants to be “Gunny Sarah Shmuckatellie”?

Are you even really a Marine?

I call POSER
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:11 am
The more you talk on here the more it sounds like you are a “life partner” to someone who once upon a time was active duty and got the boot for being gay.
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:13 am
I’m not worried about cooties, I’m just simply pointing out that you have zero life and you spend the entire work day sitting on here trying to push your “gay” views on everyone.

From 0530 to 1730 excluding 1100-1300, you shouldn’t be sitting on here bolstering your “views”.

There’s work to be done and “I” as a tax payer, are paying for it. GET TO WORK!
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:14 am
You can say whatever you want, doesn’t make it true. All it does is show that you’re too insecure to address the actually topic of this forum.

Wonder who the *real* pansy in the room is.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:15 am
How do you know I’m not on leave, asshole?
bamf Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:15 am
agreed
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:15 am
*actual even
bamf Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:16 am
stop wasting government funds and get to work. lawl
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:18 am
I’m pretty sure I was the one who addressed the TOPIC you jackwagon.

- Piss tests
- Sex changes
- Professionalism

Fucking POST, boot.
AAV Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Hell, let’s not forget fraude waste and abuse of government time/money sitting on here pushing your views onto the rest of us.
Maverick Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:24 am
It’s called the X button, you can press it at any time, homefry. And I can soapbox on a topic that pertains to me all fucking day if I’d like on my own time, so you can kiss BOTH sides of my queer ass.
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:36 am
In re to post 667 (SGT Chaffin)

The policy barring open service formally ends Tuesday. Threaten, harass and/or attack a fellow Marine and you’ll face court marshal.

Also, little lesson, “sodomy” includes both anal and oral sex. The UCMJ admonition (which will be changed) does not make exception for heterosexual sodomy. And you want me to brush up on the UCMJ?

So every time your gf/wife sucks your dick or you butt fuck her, YOU are committing sodomy. But, as Maverick alluded to, maybe that’s your problem …

This policy change occurred precisely because Americans stood up, voiced their opinions (using the rights for which you fight) and fought to change a misguided, discriminatory policy. You work for the American people, Sergeant, this is their will.

The vast majority of Americans (including Marines straight/gay/whatever) don’t share your views.

Can’t deal with open service? Get the fuck out! (no bitch or squirrel voice there)
teufelhunden Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 10:58 am
I have always believed that we were Marines first and foremost. Our uniforms display no unit specific insignia because its not as important as the fact that we all wear the Eagle, Globe and Anchor. Aside from your rank no one should be able to distinguish one Marine from another. We are ingrained not to be outlandish and stand out from our peers. I know I served with gay Marines, but they werent flamers flaunting the fact. I had no problem with them and was honored to serve with most of them. However, this article, with all of its accoutrements, indicates that there are those who want to be gay first, then Marines.

In uniform you are Marine first, everything else should be unseen periphery.
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:15 am
In re post 698 (teufelhunden)

Agreed, the cover is tasteless. Gannett is being provocative to sell their rag. Just can’t imagine anyone with a brain inferring that the entire Corps is gay.

Most gay men are not “flamers” and they are turned off by some of their antics as well.

At the end of the day, gays just want to be able to serve without fear that their private life will result in discharge. And most have no interest in flaunting it!
JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:36 am
For those of you who wish to see the situation mitigated and reversed, you have recourse through your political leaders. This was passed in a lame duck session because Barak Hussein knew that the current congress would never pass a repeal.

Get involved with you current leaders, or help elect better ones. There are plenty of half assed Senators that can & should be replaced next election. This change had everything to do with politics and nothing to do with readiness.
JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:37 am
“Most gay men are not “flamers” and they are turned off by some of their antics as well. ”

Really, when you look at some of their representatives in congress (Frank, Massa, Baldwin) I’m not at all sure that is the case. I think this is all about forcing societal acceptance.
JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:46 am
As for you GrumpyVet, you simply don’t want to address the points I made. Lot’s of decent Marines (names like Krulak, Mundy, North, Pantano, etc. ) have made it a point to get involved and help elect decent people. If you want to sit on the sidelines and see the military become a vehicle for social erosion, feel free. There are those of us who are not apathetic or disinterested.
JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:56 am
596.jdl Says:
September 16th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
JNWarren, please cite the EO Reagan signed re: gays in the military.

Per Reagan’s Defense Directive 1332.14, it was military policy that “homosexuality is incompatible with military service” and persons who engaged in homosexual acts or stated that they are homosexual or bisexual were discharged.”

Homosexuality is incompatible with military service, pretty much common sense and really not that controversial at the time. The fact that the polical class in Europe has made the military there embrace sodomy really isn’t a good reason to change. The Danish military isn’t a good benchmark if the goal is combat effectiveness.
wth Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
how bout we see six months from now how this all shapes out instead of condemning something before it is even here. All civil right issues have been faced with people opposing change. People read history books and thing fuck were people really that mistreated once upon a time. Evolution to be a more humane race is never an easy task
J Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 12:03 pm
@ Maverick:

The way you address it there, says that you are looking for equal rights under the law, which is happening, so why argue that point any further? What you said also depicts that you are looking to change peoples minds about you, and I’m sorry, but that wont happen anytime soon. There are still KKK sections, woman haters, and bible bashers throughout the world. Which means that no matter what, there are still going to be homophobics out there, there’s nothing you can do about that.

And while we are here, maybe you can tell us why “flamers” do what they do. You don’t see any straight people out there waving flags and running, so why would the other side do that? Its really not helping your cause any, and if the goal is to be seen, well they do that well, and piss the majority of the lot off. Not only that, it changes everyone’s mind about the gay community. The reason most people think as they do about gays is because, although they are fewer, the “flamers” are the most dominant voice the gay community has, so what do people think when they think of a gay person? They don’t think of the calm, collected gay who they saw at the grocery store check out line, they think of the “flamer” who they saw on TV yesterday screaming about gay rights. And by the way, people like that are the ones preventing you from those rights. No one wants to help a screaming little girl who didn’t get his way.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve known gays, been friends with some gays, but I will still punch a fucker across the face who tries something stupid. I would assume most military gays would be calmer, but what people are afraid of is the flamboyant ones.
J Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Post 700:

Exactly.
JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
“how bout we see six months from now how this all shapes out”

It will take A LOT more time than 6 months for the implementation to devolve. The Navy I am sure will lead the way in throwing the Boy Scouts off base, accomodating homosexual ‘marriages’ (which they already tried then were slapped down for), screening out out traditional chaplains, etc.

I don’t think the military anticipated day care centers, unwed parents and critical MOS’s being shorted because of pregnancy when they integrated females from the (WAVES, WACS, etc.) and into the regular force.

Knowing that the service frequently accomodates the lowest common denominator, I can imagine what will happen.

Basically though this is the price we pay because Senator Burr’s two sons can’t be bothered serving, Mitt Romney’s five son’s can’t be bothered serving, Phil Grahm’s two sons can’t be bothered serving, etc. etc.
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
In re to post 703 (JNWarren)

The Defense Directive you cite is a modification of the original one (same number) issued in 1949. It clarifies and made mandatory the discharge of gay/lesbian service members. This 1981 clarification was issued by the Deputy Defense Secretary and did not need (nor have) Reagan’s signature.

My source: pages 20 and 21 of DoD “Report of the Comprehensive Review of the Issues Associated with a Repeal of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’”

“Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” was the first time the policy barring open service was codified in US statute. It was signed by Clinton, not Reagan.

So Reagan is not your hero on this issue. Bill Clinton is! Bet that makes you crazy, huh?
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
… In other words, Reagan did not sign an EO regarding gays in the military.
jdl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
JNWarren-

You seem utterly obsessed with the “impropriety” of “sodomy.”

Help me (and others) understand. Are you a full supporter of UCMJ Article 125? Or is it just homosexual sodomy you’re opposed to (not limited to in 125)? Are you opposed to heterosexual fellatio and cunnilingus (both forms of sodomy)? Are you opposed to heterosexual anal sex (again, sodomy)?

Why are you so concerned about the private sexual behavior of consenting adults? And how does this private sexual behavior render one unfit in anyway for military service?

To quote Barry Goldwater; “You don’t need to be straight to shoot straight.”
RealMan Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
Freaking disgusting! Plain and simple. All the idiots who think this isnt a problem must live under a rock. It will be a huge problem for the enlisted guys. All the people making the decisions dont have to live and work by these people. DADT is perfectly fine the way it is. The gays get what they want without everyone else having to deal with it.
Chesty Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Front page of the Times should have read, “Armagayden, even Bruce Willis can’t save us now!!!”
Fred Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 12:40 am
Doesn’t anyone get it? This ended more than 10 years ago in Canada, the UK, Germany and Israel and was no problem. Why do Americans act like they’re breaking new ground. Those countries have first-rate militaries. We’re the last and acting like we’re first and it’s some kind of experiment. Ho hum. All the other NATO allies have done this long ago.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:17 am
((JNWarren Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 11:46 am
As for you GrumpyVet, you simply don’t want to address the points I made. Lot’s of decent Marines (names like Krulak, Mundy, North, Pantano, etc. ) have made it a point to get involved and help elect decent people. If you want to sit on the sidelines and see the military become a vehicle for social erosion, feel free. There are those of us who are not apathetic or disinterested.))

As per your post, I will return the favor and address your
points. As for civic service after military service ( I don’t disagree with you there) Yes it is important and the two do go hand in hand. When I got out of the service I became heavily involved in civic service and still to this day am.

The desire to serve does not end upon exit from the service and the swap of uniform to civillian clothes. At least not for those of us who are driven to excel.

As for my not caring about politics, This does not mean I do not engage in them to further the betterment of good moral order and socioeconomical progress. It just depends upon the venue and whether or not I am at the City Hall, State Capital, or In D.C.

I spend most of my time working on Health related concerns and interests.

As for politics, well, While I do not care for them, they are neccessary for the preservation of this proud Republic in which we live.

So yes I am heavily involved, My concerns however, are not the status of Straight and or Homosexual concerns and worries over this argument of DaDT.

Having worked inside the legal system for a number of years prior to entering the service I can tell you that change is effected by first doing hell of a lot of sheppardising, writing briefs, and then presenting your view point in a venue appropriate for such discourse.

This Forum, however, is neither the place nor the venue in which to solve the issue of potential fall out from the repeal of DaDT. While it is commendable that many have the mistaken impression that their comments posted here will resolve these issue; it will not happen on this or any forum.

You say civic duty JN, I’ve been involved in Civic duty for almost 20 years and counting.

“”"If you want to sit on the sidelines and see the military become a vehicle for social erosion, feel free. There are those of us who are not apathetic or disinterested”"”

Interesting. I have a question for you. You feel this is important? I want you to seriously take a good long hard thought over the issue.

After you have done so, and on the presumption that you have anything to offer worth while that will not waste my time, then please list what you think is important in line item format. A simple test to see if you have the ability to A: stay on target, and B: understand what comprehension is.

You have made the assumption that myself, and others have no vested interest in the wellbeing of the military service. Ok. I understand you love assumptions.

I, and every other reader in this forum, would like to see you actually list what you think Civic duty should entail.

And this time JN, stay on task, focus your direction, and by all means attempt at least an effort at cohesive dialoge.

I am sure given your stated years of military service that you are capable of this. Your response will determine the validity of your posts. And please keep in mind.

I do not entertain other people wasting my time. Stay on task or refrain from further comment by Ringing the bell loud and clear.
Happily EAS Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:46 am
The Marine Corps is really done now. First it was that low cutting scores to keep up NCO and then was the stupid tattoo policy now this. Chesty Puller and Smedley Butler are rolling in their graves
Michael Lindley Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 10:09 am
The United States of America used to be a leader in freedom, liberty and justice for all. DADT and DOMA were similar to the Separate but Equal laws in states. I don’t care what you think about homosexuality (unless you’ve had experience you are speaking from ignorance) but America is a land of CHOICES not a theocratic authority that sets standards. If we are all aren’t free to express our love as we wish then we aren’t ALL free.
Jason R. Tschanz Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 11:39 am
The back and fourth bickering is pointless. This is a done deal. We will all deal with it, and adapt to the change. I am a straight Marine SNCO, who has served with many gay Marines. They are, like the rest of us, still honorable marines who get it done by air land and sea. If I have learned anthing over the years, its that this gay thing, is not and should not be an issue. As an EO advisor, as well as in my opinion, All we are doing is getting in line with the rest of the world on this issue. When you get down to it, Marines are not characterized by their sexual orientation. They are characterized by their Warrior Ethos. Sound Familiar? Lets try to keep it professional.
Army Vet Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
I heard the new Marine motto replacing “Semper Fi” is “Don’t pull out and leave your buddy’s behind” LOL I used to respect the Marine Corps for standing against PC BS pushed by liberal politicians, now they are caving with the rest of the services. It is a sad day that a lifestyle choice now creates a “protected class”.
Army Vet Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
My condolences to the straight Marines for the tasteless magazine cover and for the record – my previous post was a joke, as I know many of you are just as disgusted with openly gay servicemembers as I am.
Gunny B Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
I have been serving in the Marine Corps for over 21 years and have seen policies come and go. I know homosexual Marines have been serving for a long time now and have been banned from being open about it. We are all Marines so all this BS in this blog is annoying as hell. Your gay? Your staight? Who gives a damn. We’re not fighting each other! We’re fighting Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Pick up your rifles weather its Blued or hot pink with ribbons and kill the enemy. I think its a person’s own right to chose how he/she lives their life. I will treat you all the same as long as you do your job. I’ll slam the crap out of you if you don’t. I don’t care if your “Homo” or “Hetero” Do your damn jobs.

As for the cover, it seriously does depict the entire Marine Corps as being gay. The editor and the author should be fired. As a straight Marine I don’t appreciate the image that this cover has shown. I work in an office with all Navy Chiefs and they are already starting with the jokes.
marinemonkeysuit Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
I really dont want to sound moto here, but the cover of the times is pretty disgraceful and embarrassing. What were you guys thinking?
CharlieRidge Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
The vast majority of the American people have spoken?? Put it to a national referendum and see how long you’re singing that tune. If the last one we had (2010) had been adhered to immediately, you wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Another one coming up in 2012. See how well that shoe fits ya.
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 4:32 pm
In re post 722 (CharlieRidge)

How does this shoe fit ya, Charlie?

Ever hear of Washington Post / ABC News?

75% of the American people supported repeal back in 2/2010

I’d call 75% a “vast majority,” wouldn’t you?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/11/AR2010021104873.html?hpid=topnews
CharlieRidge Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Washington Post?? Used to subscribe. Til my parrot died and didn’t need a cage liner anymore. LOL Like I said. National Referendum. One of yours said upthread 10% of the population. NOBODY believes that anymore. NOBODY. Disappeared just like your phony 75% will. Just common sense.
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:30 pm
In re post 725 (CharlieRidge)

No problem, poll’s too old anyway. Take your pick. Newer polls show support exceeding 80% among the American people. But, hey, all polls are conducted by the sinister “Liberal” media, right?

It’s easy to get confused among 726 posts. *I never made a “10%” reference and don’t know what you’re referring to …
doc418 Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
You know what? We (us gays) do deserve special treatment. We are better than you, because at least we can except people for who they are and not for what they stick their dicks in (or stick up your ass for you bottoms). Its not a choice. When are you people (meaning the people who think its ok to hate someone for their sexual preference) going to understand that?
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
… but I’ll assume someone was referring to the supposed percent of gays in the population. I don’t care and I’m not going to debate the actual percent. No one really knows.

But it should make you think. How strong and powerful is this small percent of people who can effect such “huge” change on the military? Good fighters, huh?
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
… and by that last paragraph I don’t mean to imply that the percentage of gays in the population is some arbitrary high number. Not at all. It just backs up that there is significant support for the repeal throughout the American public straight/gay/whatever.

Many many straight people support ending discriminatory laws not only because it’s the right thing to do but because gay people are their neighbors, friends, brothers, sisters, cousins, etc.

If they otherwise qualify, gay people should be allowed to serve without fear that their private life will threaten their military career.
CharlieRidge Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
You know exactly what the 10% reference is. Been around for years. Except it’s total BS, and you and everyone else with a double digit IQ know it’s BS. Since you’ve decided to argue like a 7th grade girl, I’ve got better things to do.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
So 1.51% of approximately 300,000,000 or roughly 45,000 people in the U.S. are queer, but they account for 61% of the 50,000 new cases of AIDs per year. Have fun dying a slow painful death if you are a queer.
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Old Jarhead Gunny-

Wow! Not only can’t bigots spell, you’ve proved they can’t even do simple arithmetic. 1.51% of 300 mil is 4,530,000.

And where in the hell did you come up with 1.51%? What, you polling the gays?

Gays are a threat to the military but meatheads like Jarhead are ok … got it!
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
Pardon my mistake…correction my family was talking to me while I was typing and distracted me – I should have not said “roughly 45,000 people in the U.S.”, but 4.3 million of the population are gay, lesbian or bisexual. Then estimate 1/2 of that for male and 1/2 for female (though females outnumber males in the U.S.) and you have the number of male queers speading 61% of the 50,000 new cases of AIDs each year. Which is a little over 2 million queer males. Now what % of the corps is queer?
doc418 Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
And the amount of unexpected pregnancies caused by gay people is how many? Well, ya can’t win em all.
doc418 Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 7:21 pm
And let’s talk about professionalism. stop using queer! The term is homosexual. Professionalism…..
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
@doc418 Why?

Queers use the word “queer”, so why can someone else not use it? Are queers already a protected class where they can use words that straight (hetrerosexual) Marines can’t use? It is mentioned in this series of exchanges at least as early as post #15 above in reference to a queer group known as “Queer nation” and possibly even before then.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
heterosexual – old eyes and bad typing leads to typos…
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 7:55 pm
I see that several of my posts are marked, “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

Just as I suspected would happen. the queers scream for special treatment claiming they just want to be “equal” but the first time they are insulted by someone speaking the truth about their high % of AIDs infection or how many actually feel about their ‘life-style choice”, instead of firing back as a true Marine would, they go crying to mama. I sure hope the Taliban doesn’t hurt their feelings. They might have to file an EO complaint… Pansy-boys.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@doc418 – I guess we need to bring back the old recruiting slogan ‘Looking for a few good men” for you and your homosexual buddies? LOL
scaatylobo Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
The Marines were once famous as “Rifleman”.
Now they will be laughed at and rightly so.
I am sad for all the men [ not fags ] that died for what was once a great nation.
Save your butt plugs,the HOMOSEXUALS are in the shower.
btw,they are NOT gay.
Giving yourself a cutsy name dont stop the actual meaning of anal sex,and that dont beget babies.
Just another fag [ pile of shit s'all ].
I was thrilled when it was in the closet,and I REALLY dont need to know.
But sometimes [ often ] it obvious.
They are sick and sad men.
Daniel Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 8:41 pm
No one will address this issue and its crazy, but I will put a paycheck that no one can justify the discrimination forced upon heterosexuals with the new policy. This was “supposedly” discrimination for one group (though they still reserve the right to serve) and now another group has no say (though they maintain the right to keep their beliefs) on who they live or shower with? BS!
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Old Jarhead Gunny-

First off, I apologize for my arithmetic / meathead remark. I was being a dick because your caustic remark kind of got my goat.

You appear to be currently serving in the Corps and for that you deserve my respect and the country’s respect for what you do and the enormous amount of shit you go through every day. For that, you have it.

And, you’re correct, the word “queer” has been used throughout this forum by gays and straights alike. It just has a different tone when used by someone with your point of view.

Your AIDS remarks are, sorry, offensive. Not all gay men have HIV/AIDS and not all that do “pass it around.” My purpose here is not to argue numbers and percentages, just to request a little compassion … maybe?

It’s clear that you fear an us (straight) / them (gay) conflict in the post dadt repeal days with “them” receiving “special rights.” Only time will show you but I’m confident this won’t occur.

The only thing that will change tomorrow is the law that forces gay people to hide what they do in private for fear it will end their careers. I’m guessing a significant number of gay Marines will choose to continue to keep that part of themselves private. But it will now be their choice and not a mandate (pardon the pun!)

Look, the Marine Corps is the baddest mother fucking fighting machine on the planet! This policy change is not going to bring down the Corps by any stretch of the imagination.

Just trying to be civil here, Gunny.
LtCol Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Good-bye, DADT, and good riddance — don’t let the door smack you on your way out.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
@ jdl – I am old, crotchety, broken and used up. I was probably in uniform in service to this country before many posting here were even shitting green in their diapers. My days of service are long and many, and I am sickened at this new turn of events. Marines used to be known for their discipline, bravery, and pride (as somebody mentioned our old reputation above). Now we will be known because of that damn magazine cover as a bunch of queers and I will have to explain that to my grandkids one day. To hell with the heros of the Corps in the public’s eyes, they will want to know how many queers we have serving, etc.

I will never change my opinion of what is acceptable as the norm and what isn’t, and a man who puts his dick in another man’s ass or his mouth on another man’s Johnson is just not acceptable in my book. It pisses me off that our own magazine makes us appear as a bunch of queers and I stand by my quoted statistics (except the 45,000 screw-up where my mind was pulled away from my typing – lucky I can even use a computer and do other things at the same time) reference numbers of queer people in the general population, the number of people who contract AIDs yearly, and the % of queers in that number who contract it compared to their % of the general population.

AIDs is still primarily a gay and drug user disease (more gay)as it strikes them disproportionately to their numbers in the general population, and shows that they engage in high-risk sexual behavior (or high-risk drug use – but we are talking about queers not drug abusers).

There was nothing wrong with a queer person just being quiet (in the closet as it was called) and not trying to force their lifestyles on the majority of straight service people (men and women) and thusly not painting us all with the same broad brush that most (if not all) civilians will comprehend from that cover.

It is wrong for the services to have created a special class of people who we all know will get preferential treatment because they enjoy perverse sex and scream discrimination when they feel the least bit slighted. Like I said before – What about the pedophiles and necrophiliacs? Are they the next protected class based upon their sexual prefrences? Why do they get discriminated against? When does it all stop?
SGT Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
so its ok for that gay guy to look at me like a piece of meat now openly. so now i cant charge him for brakeing rules cause its now ok for him to do that. mite as well make everything co-ed cause its the only way things will be fair for everyone. sence were on the subject of things not being fair got gay people. lifes not fair get over it or did you crapy parents not tell you that as a kid.
CPL Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Yeah, horrible tact and title, I really wish that The Marine Corps Times would have shown some professionalism and not use this title. I won’t be buying a copy of Marine Corps Times any more.
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
Old Jarhead Gunny-

Glad we can be civil! Sorry for inferring you were a younger guy! I still respect you for your former service!

The general consensus on this forum is that the magazine cover is tasteless and over the top. I agree. Gannet is being provocative to sell their rag. I just can’t imagine anyone with a couple of brain cells drawing the inference that all Marines are gay.

No one is asking you to change your opinion of what is acceptable sexual behavior. But, with all do respect, you don’t have the right to dictate the private sexual behavior of consenting adults. Marines (and all service members straight/gay alike) simply have to co-exist now in a professional manner. This pervasive concern that straight Marines will be preyed upon or leered at by gay Marines is unfounded. Think about it, why would a gay person be interested in “hitting on” a straight person when the chance of “closing the deal” is zero? It doesn’t make sense. Professional rules of conduct still exist and will be enforced.

I’m not going to argue with your AIDS statistics (not saying they’re accurate, I just don’t know) in the US. However, in other countries/continents (e.g. Africa) it is my understanding that it primarily affects heterosexuals when population differences are adjusted for. Hopefully GrumpyVet will read and he can provide some clarification.

Gay people are not trying to force their lifestyle on anyone. While I know you’re uncomfortable with the thought of an openly gay person, there is a problem with “staying in the closet.” Given their smaller numbers in the population, “coming out” allows them to change the hearts and minds (not yours, Gunny, I know!) of those around them. Gay people are our brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, neighbors, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, electricians, garbage men and, yes, our Marines. These changed hearts/minds are allowing them to live an honest comfortable life and enjoy the same benefits everyone else does. Such as? Freedom from job discrimination for starters. I fail to see why that is wrong. Uncomfortable? Maybe, for some. Wrong? No.

I don’t see how the repeal of dadt has created a “special class of people.” It simply removes the threat that discovery will be a career ending event. As I pointed out earlier, many (most?) gay Marines will continue to keep their private life to themselves. But, please, allow them the courtesy of not prying into their lives “forcing” them to create stories about the phony girlfriend or all the broads they banged last weekend. lol

Finally, Gunny, you’re clearly a sharp guy therefor I know that the “pedophilia,” “necrophilia” progression was hyperbole and I’ll leave it alone.
jdl Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
with all *due* respect
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 3:48 am
Beginning of the end for the USMC. If The perversion of Sodomy is accepted it will never end. Perverts know no bounds. In 30 years their will be child sacrifices before military battles. Ridiculous? Why? Paganism is the new foundation of the USMC. Formally it was Judeo /Christian. Paganism is accepting of every perversion. The only thing not tolerated is the God of the Bible.
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 5:30 am
Everyone please read these facts on Gays. Your USMC now welcomes this behavoir.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1502263/posts
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 5:35 am
Homosexuals are not a problem?? Well your future Marine will be a serving with people who openly practice all of the following if DADT is not re-instated.

Bestiality, pedophile, necrophilia., exhibitionism, fetishism, frotteurism, masochism, sadism, transvestitism, voyeurism.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 7:14 am
@jdl – I don’t know why you would not believe the statistics ref the U.S. I posted with sources, they are from the CDC and the U.S. Census Bureau. What sources would be acceptable if those to are not?

As for Africa – Have you ever been there? I have spent much time there, and while there are some nice African people, the place in general is a 3rd world shithole. many there still practice animalism, ancestor worship, and other prehistoric religions and then rape babies in the mistaken belief that sex with a virgin will “cure” them of AIDs. Of course look at what has happened in Rhodesia since it became Zimbabwe for a glimpse as to their higher levels of logic and reasoning capacity when it comes to managing their lives and leading the way in anything, especially in taking care of their own health, welfare, and economy. Africa is a shithole and not a valid comparison to the U.S. If you go down this road – Why not compare starvation rates or the rate of infant mortality between the two if you want to see how diametrically opposed they are.

[quote] jdl wrote:
Gay people are our brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, neighbors, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, electricians, garbage men and, yes, our Marines
[/quote]

Bullshit – I have no known rope-smokers in my immediate or extended family, but if I do, they are still in the closet and that closet is in the basement where the normal family members do not have to bow and suck up, to try to be ‘understanding” and “accepting” of their pole-jumping, sword-swallowing lifestyles.

I can only hope that the administration and congress changes in Washington in 2012, and someone with the intelligence of a chimp (far smarter than the ones currently in charge) sees how detrimental this will be not only to my beloved Corps but to the military in general and put the queens back in the closet and/or out of the Corps and back on to the street where they can practice their perverse desires in their San francisco bathhouses all they want without trying to destroy the military establishment from within.
GrumpyVet Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 8:07 am
Ref: Post: 747

As per your Request Jdl:

As this is a fairly expansive topic I will merely present key points to address the issue of HIV/AIDS. Let me clarify (as requested) a few outstanding points.

First and foremost this disease has been around much longer than the general public is aware of. The presumption that this disease started with the Homosexual community or gay men in the United States is indeed a falsehood. The earliest Modern confirmed documented cases of infection with the HIV virus date back to the 1950′s.

HIV (Human Immunodeficiency Virus) is the virus which is contracted. AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) is a diagnosis given when CD4 counts fall to a pre-set level as set forth by CDC/WHO guidlines. There are actually much more variables involved in an AIDS diagnosis than just the CD4 count.

While it is true that some individuals are given a diagnosis of HIV and AIDS after primary and confirmation labs have been indexed; this is not true for 100% of the population.

It is entirely possible to live a very very long time after recieving a positive diagnosis. Which a proper PT program, paired with a good diet and modern HIV medications; a diagnosis of HIV is no longer the death sentence it once was in the early 1980′s.

Another misconception held by the general public is that of a single strain of the HIV virus. This is not true. While I will not go into an in-depth discourse with regard to this area; I will present that in the 50 years of research performed there are two primaries. HIV-1 and HIV-2. In consideration of this fact there are multiple strains or Subtypes within both HIV-1 and HIV-2.

As to the prevalence of a differential between the percentages of HIV diagnosis within heterosexual, Homosexual, MSM, and Bi-sexual communities I will say the following:

While statistics are available to look up, I find that the general public uses these numbers to stigmatize, separate, and persue a general course of discrimination without cause when these numbers are used to argue quote un quote “Moral issues”

The argument of the Moral wellbeing of the general public has only caused four things with regard to individuals diagnosed with the HIV virus in the past 30 years.

1: Stigma
2: Bigotry
3: Abuse verbally, physically, and psycho-socially
4: Ignorance

These are the main causes for the continuation of this disease.

It may come as a shock to many individuals here that HIV does not care if you are man, a woman, or a child. It also does not care if you are straight, gay, bisexual, or abstain from sexual congress of any type.

As far as Department of Defense policy is concerned. All personel diagnosed with HIV are designated as a ND or Non-Deployable status. This does not mean individuals diagnosed are given Administrative Discharge. On the contrary. HIV positive servicemen and Women are encouraged to remain in the service. (Hate to be the one to burst that bubble)

This is, in brief, what I will agree to cover. I will not present statistics, nor will I argue for one party or another. It has been my experience as a provider and patient Advocate that Statistics are all to often utilized to further ignorance.

The key to this entire issue is education, and the end of this epidemic.

V/r,
Grumpy Vet
jdl Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 9:39 am
GrumpyVet-

Thank you for reading my post and providing the clarification!
As usual, it’s well written and thought provoking!

“The key to this entire issue is education, and the end of this epidemic.”

And, I might add, a little human decency and compassion.
Rich Hagen Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 11:38 am
So, the Marine Corp is breaking military policy and protocol with this one. According to DADT removal policy, sexual orientation is a personal matter. Not only does this break their own law it also brands every single marine under the title and sexual orientation as ‘gay.’ This is reprehensible and blight on the military. I’m sorry, but God says there is not peace for the wicked. We will be in eternal war until the King of Righteousness and Peace comes to establish His kingdom and punish the evil doers and cast them into everlasting burnings.

Guys this cover really is horrid. Open your eyes and wake up!
JNWarren Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
dl Says:
September 18th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
…To quote Barry Goldwater; “You don’t need to be straight to shoot straight.”
This might help you out a little bit. Goldwater was never the sodomy/abortion champion he was remembered as while he was in office:

http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.1237/article_detail.asp
JNWarren Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
716.Michael Lindley Says:
September 19th, 2011 at 10:09 am

” If we are all aren’t free to express our love as we wish then we aren’t ALL free.”

Michael, I assume this includes polyamourous and polygamous couples? Now what is the reason the to maintain discrimination against them? Just asking.
CharlieRidge Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Ernst Julius Rohm
jdl Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Eric Fidelis Alva
jdl Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
JNWarren (756) -

In the words of your hero, Ronald Reagan, “there you go again.” As pointed out by at least two other posters, you appear to have no ability to stay on topic, address the issue at hand or formulate any type of a coherent response/argument.

I asked you a direct question in that post (710) and you deliberately dodge it by challenging the sincerity of the person quoted at the end.

This is Barry Goldwater’s exact quote: “You don’t need to be straight to fight and die for your country. You just need to shoot straight.” My paraphrase did not alter the meaning.

Barry Goldwater opposed dadt when it was passed in 1993 and criticized President Clinton for not using his CiC authority to end it full stop.

Goldwater may not always have had a pro gay rights stance but his views on the issue clearly evolved. Perhaps you could learn something from him.

Now, are you going to answer the original question posed?
al-agn Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
You have the right to serve and believe you are homosexual.
Do I have the right to know you are a sinner?
JNWarren Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
JDL, I believe that the UCMJ should be interpreted as it always has been. I believe the best outcome for the services would be for the Reagan policy to have remained in place.
jdl Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
JNWarren (763)-

“I believe that the UCMJ should be interpreted as it always has been.”

You’re still not answering the question but the inference is selective interpretation. Got it!

As I showed you in 708, dadt did not bear Reagan’s signature. It was signed by Clinton. No “Reagan policy” on this issue, simply a continuation.

As GrumpyVet put it addressing you directly: “Your response will determine the validity of your posts. ”

The jury’s in: Invalid.
Dewey, AZ Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
The NAZI’s were homosexuals

http://www.thepinkswastika.com/5294/index.html
CharlieRidge Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 11:17 pm
Bradley E Manning
joe Says:
September 20th, 2011 at 11:40 pm
I support gay marriage in the civilian world; however, the rules of civilian world shouldn’t mix with the US Marines. A common expression in the corps is: “we uphold democracy, but we sure as hell don’t practice it”, “one is not like the other” The business of killing isn’t politically correct nor is Marine Corps, which makes me question sensitivity training, worrying about offending a fellow Marine with derogatory language, and the lack of hazing. Logistically speaking, what are the repercussions for homoerotic behavior in a grunt unit while in garrison or underway? Anything less than an automatic dishonorable discharged shouldn’t be tolerated. My overall general concern is a gay Marine malingering and making false accusations against a superior. If dealt in a fair manner without affecting unit cohesion, then I support the end of DADT, unfortunately I don’t think that will be the case…..
marine43 Says:
September 21st, 2011 at 7:14 am
Geez i never thought I’d say this. But the Corps is really pissin me off! Somewhere a freakin liberal got their nose under the tent . Just saw an add , about the corps celebrating Latino heritage, another says Marine recruiters goin hard after Lesbian ,and other gays! W.T.F???? I have heard that they don’t beat on ,or swear at recruits???? Turnin the Corps into a bunch of freakin pussies. Get it back or the libs will destroy from within. May be too late already!!!
5821.SGT. Says:
September 21st, 2011 at 8:31 am
I’m a female SGT, and I’m ok with gay & lesbian’s serving in the military. Personally I’ve had no problems with being battle buddies with homosexuals. As long as their proficient at their MOS & get the job done, I could give a $HIT what they do in their off time so long as it does not affect unit cohesion, mission accomplishment and the men and women around them. However we know that it will, thus we ask people to keep it on the down low. Tell who you want to, but don’t expect everyone to openly except you.
I understand there are a ton of different views but I just don’t see men coming out being an easy thing for them or the men and women around them. I can honestly say I see a lot of Boot female PFC’s and LCPL’s kissing other girls just to gain attention from the guys now that it’s ok to kiss girls. It’s just going to be a field day for sexual assaults, wrongful sexual contact and more rape investigations. Let’s face it alcohol is everywhere, & people will make poor choices when their under the influence.
K Gore Says:
September 21st, 2011 at 9:42 pm
As a prior service member i never thought i would see the day that the military would embrace PERVERSION on such a scale. For those of you blinded so much that you try comparing being homosexual to being black, i say this… You have been deceived! Race is something you cant choose. But sticking your penis in a man’s anus or licking the vagina of another woman is. Its perversion. And if the military puts a stamp of approval on that type of perversion, then pedophilia is probably next. It is what it is. This emasculating of out military will bring on serious curses to this country. Natural disasters like never before and more lawlessness. Notice after NY passed gay marriage the earthquake and hurricane hit. This is not coincidence. Abominations have defiled the land. Our president is a sidomite and supports the sodomite agenda. So sodomites are boldly pushing to normalize their perversion. Throughout history, any nation or civilization that has gone this far as to normalize sodomy, was destroyed. America will fall if she doesnt repent. Sodom and gomorrah, Nineveh, and even Rome fell due to such practices. Judgement is upon us because of wickedness in the land and the sodomites running freely
Unknown Says:
September 22nd, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Bottom line is GOD said it is an abomination. So no matter what obama or any of you say…. It’s wrong and we all know what happens to people who stand against God’s word….. He wiped out a whole town for this sin.
Brian Says:
September 22nd, 2011 at 4:59 pm
This is what happens when you don slap and/or punch some sense to someone (Recruits). YOU LITTLE BI***** YOU’RE F***ING MARINES ACT LIKE YOU DESERVE TO CALL YOU’RE SELF MARINES!!! Every Marine acting like an ass or a circus freak should be reboot, that way they will start acting like real Marines. Simper Fi!
joe Says:
September 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 am
thank you f the above comment….start acting like marines
Rhawkman Says:
September 23rd, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Retired AF and I just HAD to read about this after seeing the dumbass cover. Yeah, I am laughing, but sure not at Marines. At the dumbass cover of the dumbass rag just like AF Times et al.

As for the content, I really really really don’t give a frog’s fat ass if you are gay, straight, or twisted. Do your damn job and stop making it all about you. Had a guy who worked for me for many years who stopped hiding it after he retired. We all knew. We didn’t care because he did a great job. Should he have been able to be open about it while in? Sure. He should have always had the right to say pretty much any damn thing he pleased. Just like now, if you are gay, like gay, straight, bi, WTF ever. It is not just the people you agree with that have the right to voice their opinions. What if someone does something that just screams out to be called ‘stupid’? Are we gonna ban that too because it will hurt their feelings?

I am old; fine. Raised in a different time and culture by parents from WAY back. But I recognize that South Park (you oughta watch the biker fag episode) and Tosh.0 have a better grasp on it than most. WHO CARES? I will make fun of you and you will make fun of me. Give each other shit and get on with our missions, jobs, and lives. We don’t have to agree to get along and do the mission. I love steak but I don’t care if someone is a vegan. More power to ya, but don’t dare try to tell me that I should change to be like you or that I am wrong because I refuse to be a veg like you and actually have the temerity to disagree with you.

Finally, just for the record…putting ‘Get over it’ on the cover was just plain being dickheads. Just putting “DADT rescinded” should have been all that was necessary.

God bless ALL of you who have, are and continue to defend our nation.
Rhawkman Says:
September 23rd, 2011 at 1:33 pm
I had to add something else about the topic of preferential treatment. I would not call it preferential, but it does cause a disparity and can have serious issues. I learned early in my career that if a female subordinate was in trouble, there was no way in hell I was gonna counsel (yell at) her in private behind a closed door. It would not matter how bad she screwed up if she took offense at getting in trouble, all she had to do was complain sexual harassment and I would have been guilty. I fear that scenario may expand. All it takes is a person filing a complaint of homosexual harassment. People who want to get out of their own mistakes always have and always will use false accusations to deflect attention from their failures. Just another avenue to do that.
SmittyPA Says:
September 23rd, 2011 at 6:09 pm
There are some seriously uninformed people on this thread. For example, the woman who doesn’t know gay men aren’t more likely to be cross dressers than straight men. Ah well, I’m sure the reaction was similarly ignorant when the Corp was desegregated.
TOP - Chesapeake VA Says:
September 24th, 2011 at 8:04 am
I retired a MSGT and I am very glad I am out of the political nonsense going on now. There are few words to describe this…. DISGUSTING and STUPID are two that come to mind. The fact that the Marine Times is going to herald this as a great victory like the killing of Bin Laden just shows how dumb they are.
Superman85 Says:
September 27th, 2011 at 7:07 pm
I have a three yr old son, Ill be damned if my son gets raised around a bunch of homosexuals. Very recent studies have shown, that when young people have been exposed to those that have chosen to live this un-natural life style, they them selves are more than likely to adapt the life style. I am a recruiter, I will refuse to recruit a homosexual, if I get the chance too. But so far they are weakminded as there wrists are. They have been screaming to be allowed into the military openly, but none of them have come to the recruiting station to sign up. The reason is now that they got there way and can feel good about going against nature, they want more.
roger3 Says:
September 28th, 2011 at 12:13 am
Superman85 – 776

Care to provide a citation, source or link to that “study?”

Yeah, thought so.

I seriously doubt you’re a recruiter but if you are, be prepared to be booted out if you carry through with your threat. Discrimination will not be tolerated and that admonition carries through the entire chain of command: CMC, DS and the CiC.

Oh and by the way, gays are already in the military including the corps!

You are more of a danger to your son than any homosexual. Clearly you are a disturbed poisonous individual.

Get some help.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 28th, 2011 at 4:00 pm
All I have seen from the faggot support crowd is the typical loud, in your face faggots posting to most who disagree with them with nothing to back it up.

All of you flamer-defenders (whom I firmly believe are simply faggots pretending to be Marines or faggots who have managed to slip through the cracks –pun intended – and actually joined the Corps)… How come all of you demand facts to support the assertions of those who don’t want to serve with rump-ranger, broke-back mountain watching cocksuckers, yet you have not provided anything to disprove the disproportionate number of queers, faggots, gays, (whatever the “in/hip word” is that you “ladies” want people to call the sphincter stretching cock-sucking males these days), who are contracting and spreading a disproportionate number of the new cases of AIDs in the U.S. population?

Prove the census and CDC numbers I provided wrong to justify how safe this purely voluntary aberrant behavior actually is where you are fucking other men (and I use that term “men” loosely) up the ass and not contracting and spreading AIDs at an astronomical percentage based upon your numbers in the general population. Let us see some facts to justify your behavior instead of your demanding that others are wrong to be sickened by your butt-fucking each other.

Prove with scientific studies (and not by pointing out the purely political movements of the American Psychiatric Association in 1973) that a man fucking another man or sucking his dick is purely natural and normal. If you use that decision to reclassify being queer from the list of mental disorders, cite the studies done prior to the time proving it wasn’t a purely political move to appease the vociferous queer rights movement of the times (late 1960s and early 70s).
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 28th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
It is indeed a sad time for my beloved Corps when/if being queer becomes “normal” to the majority of Marines.

http://www.narth.com/docs/whitehead.html
[quote]
Summary: Recent studies show homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from a psychiatric problems than do heterosexuals. We see higher rates of suicide, depression, bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse. This paper highlights some new and significant considerations that reflect on the question of those mental illnesses and on their possible sources. [/quote]

I also found this opinion on the web and while simple and straight-forward, I think it breaks down the problem with being “gay” in that same simple straightforward manner so that anyone can understand it regarding being queer being a nuerological disorder.
[quote]
Basically it’s “bad wiring” throughout the neurological system of a homosexual, you’re natural instinct is to reproduce. Example of why men like large breasts and buttocks, it’s good for procreation… This along with other things like pheromones and hormones are what cause men to pursue women… So by default if a man were to chase a man, he is getting turned on by the wrong types of information being processed in his mind. See it’s really quite simple a Neurological Malfunction is truly where homosexuality stems from but people are afraid to accept it.[/quote] …common sense.

lastly – Also since the gay-defenders/queers on here like pulling names out of a hat to try to prove their point that there is no mental illness associated with being queer and that it is a “normal” lifestyle and also like to call those who disapprove of their behavior hateful or bigoted, here are a few proud peace-loving queers that you can google to marvel at their wonderous exploits. I am by no means saying all gay men are serial killers. I am just pointing out how common mental illness is in homosexual men.:
(For those who are not religious and who will start crying, calling me a bible-thumper, and hitting me with their purses…guys, I only used the site because it had a listing of homosexual serial killers and not for the purpose of proselytizing )
http://www.adherents.com/misc/hsk.html

Name and # of People Killed
Jeffrey Dahmer 17
Andrew Cunanan 5
Gilles de Rais 300+
Luis Alfredo Garavito 140+
Randy Steven Kraft 65 (est)
Michael Swango 35-60
Andrei Chikatilo 52
Fritz Haarmann 40 (est)
John Wayne Gacy 33
Patrick Wayne Kearney 28+
David D. Hill 28 (est)
Hans Grans 27+
Wayne Williams 27
Dean Corll 27
Elmer Wayne Henley 27
David Owen Brooks 27
Donald Harvey 25-40 (est)
Juan Corona 25
Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo 21 (est)
Larry Eyler 19
Huang Yong 17+
Dennis Nilsen 16
Marcelo Costa de Andrade 14
William Bonin 12+
Henry Lee Lucas 12+
Ottis Toole 12+
Vaughn Greenwood 11+
Richard Speck 8+
Cayetano Hernandez 8
Eleazor Solis 8
David Bullock 6+
Vernon Butts 6+
Paul Bateson 6 (est)
Marc Dutroux 6
Michael Terry 6
Orville Lynn Majors 6
Charles Cohen 5+
Arthur Gary Bishop 5
Michael Lupo 4+
Peter Moore 4
Westley Allan Dodd 3+
David P. Brown
(a.k.a. Nathaniel Bar-Jonah) 3+
Charles Manson 3+
David Edward Maust 5+
Bruce Davis 2+
Erik Menendez 2
roger3 Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 12:05 am
Good thing your crowd is backing up the shit being spewed.
Hell, you just pointed out that the APA removed homosexuality from their list of disorders almost 40 years ago. Guess that “backs it up.” Oh yeah, purely political … right.

You sure seem to know an awful lot about gay culture and history. Of course that’s consistent with the hypothesis (backed up to some degree by a University of GA study years ago) that the most virulently ant-gay “men” are repressed homosexuals. It’s always guys like you who are caught tapping their foot in the MSP men’s room!

Why do you give a fuck about hiv / aids? In your mind they’re only passing it around among themselves. So what? Doesn’t affect you, right?

You have no fucking clue how many gay people exist and who the fuck cares anyway? That said, your previous estimate of 1.51% is absurd on the face of it. Specificity to 1/100 th of a percent, get real!

No one needs to justify anything to you at all. You don’t get to decide how people have sex. Pay attention to your own sex life (assuming you have one) and get the fuck out of other people’s bedrooms! Turned off by men having sex with each other? Then don’t do it! But that’s the full extent of your dominion on this issue!

In the end, you’ve lost. The country’s attitudes have changed and are changing at a startling rate. Vile assholes like you are now in a significant minority (maybe 1.51% of the population)!

OK fire back, genius. Let’s see how many more times you can call people “faggot,” “queer,” “rump ranger” (that’s a good one lol!), “flamer,” “cocksucker.” Come on … maybe you could use some original epithets next time!
roger3 Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 12:54 am
The 2010 US Census DID NOT ask about sexual orientation.

The only data captured on this demographic was the VOLUNTARY reporting of an unmarried partner relationship.

The census DID NOT use this data to extrapolate the total number of gay people in the country.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 6:56 am
@roger3 – Regardless of what source was used to garner their numbers, (use your source if you would like and give a diffeent number), you still haven’t given a number to explain why such a small segment of the population is responsible for such a high % of new AIDs cases in such a massive disproportionate number to their numbers in the general population.

If I am wrong that the behavior associated with being a queer man is hazardous to your health through the contraction of AIDs due to sexual practices, then prove me wrong. I’m waiting…
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 9:58 am
@roger3 ref post#783 I see I struck a nerve in your little cocksucking head. LMAO. The bullshit that queens like you spout that “anyone who doesn’t like queers must be one is infantile and exactly that bullshit’. I don’t like child-molesters, drug-addicts, and TV pitchmen, so by using your logic i must be one of those as well. Just because you like the smell of shit on your dick doen’t mean the country’s “The country’s attitudes have changed and are changing at a startling rate” regarding the behavior of you and your faggot buddies. It simply means that a liberal President is trying social experimentation in the military to appease his hard-left liberal base. nothing more and nothing less. most Americans are still disgusted with “turd-burglars” such as yourself.

You are pissed because someone isn’t afraid to tell you what they think of perverts such as you, and not so politically correct and afraid to speak out that I bury my head in the sand and pretend that what you do is anywhere near the realm of normalcy.

You are a degenerate, vile, disgusting, person, who is trying to justify that you love to fuck other men in the ass by shifting the focus from the perversive nature of your actions to ‘Why in the world would anyone think being queer is wrong?” ‘Why they must be a closet-homo…yeah, thats it, I know you are, Nay nay nay’ – Yeap that is basically your response.

I am still waiting for you to give me facts to disprove that the voluntary actions of faggots doesn’t lead to the disproportionate number of AIDs cases in their segment of the population (regardless of what number of rump-jockeys you settle on as an acceptable % in the population).

As for why I care. first i don’t want my tax dollars going to cure a disease spread primarily by the bad choices of queers and hyped by their PR machine to generate money for research to save their worthless asses from themselves. Secondly – just as with any disease, it will leak into the normal population and effect innocent people all because you and your buddies like fucking each other up the ass you “limp-wristed, powder-puff, jizz-guzzling, sword-swallowing, punctured-spincter, ass-sniffing, queer, drama queen”. There was that enough insults to suitably offend your faggot sensibilities. maybe i should go to sensitivity training because I dare to call you the perverted, mentally ill, deviante, degenrate, that you are? Did I hurt your little girly feelings? Cry me a fucking river, faggot.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 10:02 am
I apologize to anyone reading this for the typos in my previous post, but I was in a hurry and have to run somewhere. I’ll check back and see if roger3 has removed the gerbils from his ass long enough to answer when I get back.
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 11:02 am
[quote] by roger3 post #783
…You sure seem to know an awful lot about gay culture and history…
[/quote]
This is what I find the most humorous about your post. What? Do you think you have some kind of “secret squirrel” information as to what faggots do to one another when they have sex that isn’t common knowledge? Well guess what?…people know and it disgusts them. many try to act like it is normal, but they are sheep cowed by the loud, in your face queer lobby. You don’t have a vagina Einstein, so where the hell else are you putting your dick when you are having “sex” with your boyfriend?…in a “make-believe vagina” that he straps on his ass? You are truly a “by the page, tow the line from the faggot handbook whenever some questions your perverse lifestyle type faggot”
Insults aside – I am still waiting on your explanation as to why there is a disproportionate number of AIDs cases in the queer male population (and growing) if it isn’t spread through your deviant sexual practices and also a viable explanation backed by research that shows that being queer is normal and not a mental disorder. As I said before, the decision in 1973 was purely political in nature, made to appease a loud queer lobby, and I challenge you to provide the viable research that led to that decision.

You haven’t done it because you can’t do it. Simple fact – that is why you go on the defense, then attack, and never answer anyone with facts.

Come on Cupcake, amaze me with your intellect.
scaatylobo Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 1:41 pm
This “old timer” see’s Gunny as a man that is NORMAL.
And those that oppose his views as ABNORMAL.
That was the NORMAL view of the public until the queers started asking and demanding to be called normal.
That is the same as mental patients asking to be called sane.
If you have the mental disease of homosexuality,then “man up” and stop asking to be part of the NORMAL society.
We who do not agree with you ,do not hate nor fear you [ least not grown men ] but we do take umbrage at your insistance that you be considered normal.
IF you were normal,you could father children with your sex life,all you can give birth to is a hot pile of poo.
THAT is not normal,and besides it breeds AID’s in case you missed the note.
The homosexual population of this country that has been counted is less than 2 3/4 Percent of the entire population.
For that small a number,we do not need a splashy page on a proud military magazine showing that all are fruitcakes.
AND if those that are the flamers did not act in such a manner [ truly sick ] then those that are not ACTING OUT would have a much safer and happier life.
SO,explain how the “FRUITCAKES” are normal and they should be allowed in service OPENLY to this nation.
OH and tell me PLEASE,how that will make for a stronger U.S.A.
As that is the only reason to be in the military = to strengthen this nation.
NOT WEAKEN and ridicule it.
roger3 Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Sorry for the delay in my response, cupcake. Some of us work for a living and pay taxes to provide for your unemployment, social security, military pension or whatever the fuck it is that allows you to sit home on a weekday and bang out obscene diatribes on your keyboard.

Absolutely hysterical that you immediately infer that I’m a “cocksucker,” “queen,” “faggot,” “turd burglar” (new one, good for you!), “pervert,” “rump ranger,” limp wrist,” “powder puff,” “jizz guzzler (another new one lol),” “sword swallower,” “punctured sphincter,” “ass sniffer” simply because I write in support of the repeal and the total irrelevance of sexual orientation. Fuck, using your logic I’d have had to be black to support the civil rights movement of the sixties. You are entertaining though, you ought to go on Leno or Letterman! Oh wait, they’re fag lovers too! It’s driving you fucking crazy that the whole of mainstream America is passing you by on this issue, isn’t it? And, yeah, they are. Pull up the polling on the repeal support among the US population: 75% or more depending on the poll. Ain’t just Obama, asshole, and it ain’t just the Dem’s. Hell, even Santorum is puking all over himself trying to walk back some of the incendiary comments he’s made because it ain’t playing well in Peoria!

Now, let’s see. I’ve already caught you on your bullshit 1.51% number that you erroneously attributed to the US Census. Then, the other Mensa member in your cheer leading section (Scaatylobo) pulls another number out of his ass without a source (2.75%). Fact is it’s impossible to determine the actual number of men who engage in sex with other men (MSM) in the US population or any other. An accurate count requires the question and an honest answer, not always forthcoming for obvious reasons. When you exclude labels such as “gay” or “bi,” MSM is higher than your joke estimates e.g. the whole “DL” phenomenon.

Who the fuck cares anyway? Sexual preference/activity is irrelevant. No one has a right to dictate how other consenting adults have sex nor do they have the right to use that criteria to bar someone from military service when they’re otherwise qualified. After last Tuesday, they can’t. Another benefit of the repeal: Making your jarhead explode … fucking priceless!

Is it a fucking newsflash that HIV/AIDS has dramatically affected MSM and that the incidence/prevalence percentage is higher than in the exclusively heterosexual population? Hardly. What’s the point? Despite the disproportion, not all MSM have the virus nor do they engage in behavior that puts them at risk for contraction. Two monogamous men free of HIV pose zero risk of contracting or transmitting it. Society is gradually providing a “safe space” for these men to feel comfortable forging such relationships in spite of the views held / expressed by a small minority of neanderthals such as yourself. What excused your venom pre-1981 and what will excuse your venom post eradication? What? The “ick” factor? Then don’t have sex with another man and stop obsessing about homosexual male sex!

That’s my response to your pointless HIV/AIDS commentary.

Now here’s a question: Why is it that female homosexuals are at least risk for contracting HIV/AIDS? I haven’t once read that you oppose or are disgusted by female homosexual activity. And that’s a distinction without a difference, cupcake.

Keep the epithets coming! But, please, keep ‘em original!
Old Jarhead Gunny Says:
September 29th, 2011 at 10:19 pm
@roger3 – You are pathetic and still refuse to address the two main points I brought up. Here they are. Please read slowly so you can comprehend them. Once you have answered them, I will address your strawman question attempts by you to keep you from having to answer these.

[quote]
I am still waiting on your explanation as to why there is a disproportionate number of AIDs cases in the queer male population (and growing) if it isn’t spread through your deviant sexual practices and also a viable explanation backed by research that shows that being queer is normal and not a mental disorder. As I said before, the decision in 1973 was purely political in nature, made to appease a loud queer lobby, and I challenge you to provide the viable research that led to that decision.

You haven’t done it because you can’t do it. Simple fact – that is why you go on the defense, then attack, and never answer anyone with facts.
[/quote]
GrumpyVet Says:
September 30th, 2011 at 4:44 am
Interesting. As is always the case everyone demands numbers, percentages, case studies, ect…

In the end it seems to be left to those of us who are Providers and Patient Advocates to not only fill in the blanks; but educate those who are ignorant by choice or circumstance.

To be clear, I never cared about any service member’s sexual orientation while I was in the service. I still don’t. As long as a fellow Marine does his or her job it shouldn’t matter.

Now for the lesson. Since most of you posting to this forum exhibit a lack of both education and knowledge with regard to HIV/AIDS. It is class time, and the smoke deck is secured.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention- Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports (CDC-MMWR):

These are what we (the guys that provide your health care) look at on a weekly basis.

As Data (believe it or not) takes quite some time to compile from all States, CommonWealth, Territories, counties, districts, cities, etc… Most of the relevant Hard Data (or HD) covers what is known as Reporting Periods. These are set ranges of time (Typical set as Amount of Years) in which Data sent to the CDC is compiled, classified, and then distributed after anlysis to all DoH (Department of Health) Agencies Nation Wide.

Good, since we have that out of the way, I will be covering the Surveillance Summaries (the most recent available in final Data State) as of 02SEP2011. Ok knuckleheads get a canister of OFF and start cleaning. You’ll need a memory slot for this.

As of 01JAN2010 based upon collected data from target areas and states: an estimated 663,084 persons were living with a diagnosis of HIV in 40 states that have confidential name-based HIV infection reporting.

Fact: HIV or Human Immunodeficiency Virus is what you contract. (NOT AIDS- get it right maggots)

FACT: AIDS: Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome is a diagnosis given after the required line items are met when a person is HIV positive. ie: CD4 count at required amount, Opportunistic Infections( OI- secondary such as pneumonia, KP, etc..)

Fact: oh yes EVERYONE has a CD4 count. Even healthy HIV negative persons). So don’t start thinking that homosexuals only have CD4′s. Everyone is born with them. They are a part of your immune system.

Information gathered in this specific MMWR was obtained from both male, and female HIV positive patients.
49% Heterosexual
42% Homosexual
8% were bi-sexual

Ok, So now that we have that out of the way, and you can clearly see that this is NOT a Homosexual- or queer disease.

Ready for this knuckleheads: Your Sexual Orientation has nothing to do with contracting HIV.

HIV doesn’t care if you are Heterosexual, Homosexual, or a Virgin Chesty Puller himself would be proud of.

Children are born with this Life-threatening disease every single day here at home in America as well as in other countries.

Oh yes, and I’ve never heard of any virus that asks you what your religious preference is either when it is being studied under a microscope. Still waiting on that one.

As a Patient Advocate I do not have the luxury of supporting one side or the other. It does not matter to me what your Sexual Orientation is, your Religion, or even your social background. What does matter to me is this:

Those of you who fuel ignorance and bigotry towards one population of individuals or another.

For those of you who really want to argue about the entire HIV topic. Do myself and every other Patient Advocate/ Medical Provider out there a favor.

No actually do yourselves a favor. When you get tired of being ignorant (i’m sure it must hurt) and lazy.

Or when you finally figure out that people living with HIV are just as human as you.

Or when you pull your heads out of your rectal cavities and put them squarely back on your shoulders… Please do the following:

Go down to your (Yes EVERY city in America has one) local ASO (Aids Service Organization), and actually do something for someone else besides yourself. Spend some time volunteering with the very people most of you seem to be wanting to slander.

You might actually discover that regardless of how those HIV positive people at those Service Organization contracted the disease; that they are just as human as you are. They have the same needs, the same wants, the same fears, and the same thing running through their veins as you do.

Hell, You might even get a reputation for being a decent human being that Brigadier General Jacob Zeilin would be proud of.

I’d even go so far to as to say that Brevet Brigadier General Archibald Henderson (Who by the way was Responsible for introducing higher standards of discipline in the Corps) might even take time off from guarding the gates of heaven to come down here and shake your hand for being a decent human being.

The ironic matter in this whole issue is that those who are the most ignorant about the topic at hand are the most likely to contract HIV.

Oh yes, and NEWS FLASH…. It doesn’t matter if you are Straight or Gay. HIV is HIV regardless of your sexual orientation.

Ok. Lesson is over, you can break formation. The smoking lamp has been re-lit. Make sure you maggots grab condoms on your way out to Liberty. If you won’t listen to reason and education then perhaps you should read the statement on the back of the condom wrapper.

Now where is my God D*& Coffee?
Integrity Says:
September 30th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Throughout my career in the Marine Corps I frequently heard SNCOs and Officers of all ranks talk all kinds of shit about when the day comes that the Marine Corps tolerates gays, they will quit, resign, etc. Many a SgtMaj or Colonel over a beer, in select company, made that statement like an oath. Well, that day came and went and has anyone quit? No. Why? Because they don’t want to lose their paycheck. Me? I bailed out long ago. Couldn’t take the hypocrisy. Of course now all those “dedicated” Marines will say, well, I am staying because I am faithful to the Corps and am not going to quit like that guy. Yeah right. Just bend over and take it.
Integrity Says:
September 30th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
I like how the Marine’s policy is, well, if we’ve got to do this we’ll do it better than all the services. We follow orders, etc etc. And our generals think they are really being stand up leaders. This is why civilians laugh at the military for doing whatever they are told. Just following orders, Sir. Fags? Yes, 5 bags full Sir.
Porter Pickard Says:
October 1st, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Fuck all of you straight bigots
S Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Some people can be so narrow minded. Gay people are all around us, Well those days of lying and being someone that you are not are over! I’m surprised and glad that the times published that issue. It caught your attention? Good! It’s a great day to be in the USMC and to be a part of something so monumental like HUMAN RIGHTS for those who serve the USA!
LoL Says:
October 12th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
dam this thing is still going on for a month ?
seriously Says:
October 18th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Reading these responses makes me thankful I’m not involved with a marine anymore. You are enlisted to protect the freedom of this country-I don’t think you enlisted to discriminate who’s freedom you protect. I would have thought you would have been proud of this country and the people in this country-no matter what their beliefs but obviously that’s a far cry. It seems like “men” like you enlist more because you can’t do anything else with your lives and less because of the so called honor and loyalty and integrity that you claim to stand for. Disgusting.
erik nyc Says:
October 23rd, 2011 at 6:15 pm
how gay is the USMC now anyway? flamboyantly gay everywhere? lol… dear god, how funny (and weird) — well they are downsizing the military and bringing them home, so you cant disgrace us internationally when you bring on the TRannies. Girl the weaves will be flyin’ – I used to live in the Village, you are in for a real treat. If you want wild tribes of muslims running for the hills, bring on the Trannies! ha…. seriously
Question? Says:
November 2nd, 2011 at 7:34 pm
I am not currently in the military, but I will be joining within the year. A quick question I have is not that i care DADT is repealed, but what is going to happen in boot camp. It is not okay for men to shower with the ladies because of sexual preferences. Even though you were still with gay men and women before you did not officially know it. Now everyone legally knows you can be in boot camp with men who prefer you(men) as a sexual object…just saying sounds pretty similar to the rules for why women and men who are hetero cannot shower together..lawsuits inc?
Enemadude Says:
January 8th, 2012 at 4:42 am
I am trying to find Mirines, Bikers, Construction Guys , Oilfield roughnecks To hang out with get discipline and authority, forced exercise. get toughened up. If I could find such a gut they are possible roomates and the paddle and discipline enemas should be freely used.
Marine Plaques Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 11:20 am
Four months later has anything changed? I haven’t heard a thing about this since it first came out . . .
Yawn Says:
January 15th, 2012 at 7:25 pm
“Four months later has anything changed? I haven’t heard a thing about this since it first came out . . .”

EXACTLY!
jim Says:
April 24th, 2012 at 3:51 pm
bs.. aint my marine corps.!!!! guess marines arent marines forever anymore… i QUIT!!!

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